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Re: A few more videos

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:12 pm
by Horse
jcochrane wrote: So the presenter suggest trail braking to the point that the view opens up at the apex and then transition on acceleration whilst coming off the brake. I have no problem with that. What is not covered in the video is bends where the limit point starts to extend before or at turn in. I wonder if he would still suggest trail braking in those circumstances?


I think that, in the context of that presentation (it was on a tour in NZ, with several presentations during a session) he was rushing to cover too much information for the time available (IIRC that video is 2 of 2 or 3). The other example he gave, of a 360 degree bend, braking for 270, didn't make sense to me.

If, as I think you're getting at, it's simply adjusting speed to view, that's a sensible option (although having a reserve of distance and lean angle would mean you might, depending on circumstances, choose to stay off the brakes and just lean further. Also, I'm not convinced by the suggestion of keeping small amounts of throttle on while braking.

He (and others) seem to be encouraging it as an all bends, all the time, cure-all. To me it's only curing (for anyone using it) a self-created problem.

Re: A few more videos

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:37 pm
by jcochrane
Horse wrote: Also, I'm not convinced by the suggestion of keeping small amounts of throttle on while braking.


I was not convinced either. It reminded me that Reg Local, in his recent video on left foot braking in an automatic car, suggests the same thing of left foot trail braking whilst keeping throttle open and then lifting of the brake to shoot out of the bend. Some cars disable the throttle if on the brake so would not be possible in them anyway. (Once had a problem in a Skoda as I could not work out why I could not heel n toe., then the owner explained. :oops: ) Personally I prefer, if left foot braking, to ease of the brake at the same time as easing on the gas so both feet act at the same time. This results in a seamless blending of the transition from brake to accelerate.

Re: A few more videos

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:50 pm
by Horse
jcochrane wrote: Some cars disable the throttle if on the brake so would not be possible in them anyway.


Several years ago a colleague had grief with a Polo that had a dodgy brake light switch (or similar), meaning accelerating away from junctions etc was hit and miss.

Re: A few more videos

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:36 am
by jont-
jcochrane wrote:
Horse wrote: Also, I'm not convinced by the suggestion of keeping small amounts of throttle on while braking.


I was not convinced either. It reminded me that Reg Local, in his recent video on left foot braking in an automatic car, suggests the same thing of left foot trail braking whilst keeping throttle open and then lifting of the brake to shoot out of the bend.

In the 80s that was a rally driver favourite for turbo anti-lag. Maybe he's trying to do something similar?

Re: A few more videos

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:32 am
by Horse
jont- wrote:
In the 80s that was a rally driver favourite for turbo anti-lag. Maybe he's trying to do something similar?


Bikes, if in a responsive gear, don't tend to hang about when you twisted the handle.

However, looking for a positive, you would save a second or two over releasing brakes and opening the throttle. (Bearing in mind that bike controls allow easy BGOL)

Re: A few more videos

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:09 pm
by GTR1400MAN
I pointed out the issue with some cars not liking left foot braking induced overlap on Reg Local's upload. My Renaultsport Clio will go into limp home mode with a big spanner on the display if you press brake and accelerator together, until you stop, get out locking the door, unlock, get in and restart. It's your punishment!

Even fairly basic shopping trolley cars these days will show a good turn of speed out of a corner if you keep them noisy enough.

As Horse said BGOL is so easy on the bike as you can do EVERYTHING at once. It's this fact that makes getting some riders see the benefit of a structured approach via IPSGA such hard work sometimes. I watched an old Roadcraft DVD the other morning. The police instructor (they were all in nice white shirts, not looking like Robocop of today) said words to the effect of "We have never said The System is the fastest way to get round a corner, but it is the safest".

Re: A few more videos

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:30 pm
by Horse
GTR1400MAN wrote:The police instructor (they were all in nice white shirts, not looking like Robocop of today) said words to the effect of "We have never said The System is the fastest way to get round a corner, but it is the safest".


Is that one of the old Kent videos? They did 'Roadcraft' in 1979 and 'Riding Plans' in 1981. In some ways, Plans is still one of the best ever done, certainly for at least 20 years.

Supt. Peter Amey (one of the main people behind the 1995 Roadcraft rewrite, and ex-Maidstone) did a talk for TVAM. He explained that one of his trainees was left behind by a 'granny' through a set of bends.

Re: A few more videos

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:38 pm
by Horse
Actually if DVD, was it the Met one?



Clip includes Willy Christie. I think it was him that threatened to break my left leg.

If I tried to declutch.

In an autobox car :)

Re: A few more videos

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:41 pm
by Horse
GTR1400MAN wrote:It's this fact that makes getting some riders see the benefit of a structured approach via IPSGA such hard work sometimes


And some here cough have given up trying to stop their wife cough from BGOL through the car's box when braking :bash: :flail:

Re: A few more videos

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:40 pm
by GTR1400MAN
Horse wrote:Actually if DVD, was it the Met one?

Yes, it was that one. It was in that bundle of books/DVD I purchased off here.

It says it is 2005.

Now 2005 doesn't seem long ago but it looks like a different world. 4:3 format video, police all dressed in smart white shirts, and they all seem to speak with clipped Queen's English. There's also almost empty roads. I suspect the footage is older than the DVD date and has been re-packaged. What did I learn? That my rev matching is very tame. In the demos big boot-fulls of accelerator are used. Far from subtle.