Advanced Driving Hub

Gareth, I think we are mainly in agreement. There may be just a subtle difference in opinion.

Usually, I will go offside only if I consider an overtake is likely to be safe. As you described, I will assess, return to the nearside if it's not on, go if it is, or wait there until it's clear one way or the other.

However, I will be thoughtful about off-siding while following. Perhaps any disagreement, while small, is about looking for opportunities to move offside. I might be riding to get to a meeting or for fun, but I'm not on emergency response. It means I'm mindful of third-party perceptions.

Bikes allow more opportunities for overtaking than cars, so it's easy to spend a lot of time offside. However, a lot of time offside can pressure the target vehicle's driver or look terrible to other road users. I'm a civilian rider, not in the emergency services, and third-party perceptions are a factor I consider regarding how much I move offside. If I get my timing right, I can overtake discretely (creeping up on a target vehicle to be past them before the driver notices my overtaking position).

In the prehistoric era, I was in HPC. On reflection, I'm convinced that some progressive car driving wouldn't have left a positive impression on other road users. This impression isn't something I wish to repeat on the bike.

Ohlins wrote:However, a lot of time offside can pressure the target vehicle's driver or look terrible to other road users.

It can depend what you're in. Sometimes just popping out for a look in the Caterham creates some cooperation and they let you past And it's perhaps another reason to get past at the first safe opportunity.

I'm not sure how much I want to worry about what other road users think. Ultimately that leads to behaving like the lowest common denominator to make sure you fit in

I ride a fast bike and use its performance appropriately – overtaking where it’s safe, in line with Roadcraft and my training. However, while others’ perceptions are hardly my highest priority, they should still be one factor to consider in the mix.

Also, I aim to ride with consideration to other road users, which means I want to avoid a driver ahead of me feeling under excessive pressure. If I can overtake the car ahead without troubling them, that’s great. However, if my positioning pressures the diver ahead – merely so I can gain the satisfaction of an overtake while out for pleasure – then it’s selfish.

I know how to turn up the wick, including a whole week’s training from a police instructor on the Isle of Man (like a week-long HPC course for bikers). But as a civilian, it doesn’t justify riding or driving as if I was on emergency response.

Ohlins wrote:Also, I aim to ride with consideration to other road users, which means I want to avoid a driver ahead of me feeling under excessive pressure. If I can overtake the car ahead without troubling them, that’s great. However, if my positioning pressures the diver ahead – merely so I can gain the satisfaction of an overtake while out for pleasure – then it’s selfish.

I think that it is more than whether it is selfish or not / more than about upsetting someone, or keeping them happy...
putting pressure on someone ahead of you can lead to their reacting in a way you don't expect - from slamming on the brakes to 'help' you overtake / signalling you past when you have no clear view and then being annoyed that you don't take them up on their signal, to reacting in other more random ways...

if they feel unpressured, then they will probably just drive their normal routine and be easier to overtake

Doesn't much of the perception issue arise when riders are too close behind, whether in the lane or offside?

I find myself quite happy when a rider is following behind at a reasonable distance, and can be seen in the centre mirror, and when they are at a reasonable following distance offside, and can be seen in the door mirror. I get concerned when I know a rider is close but I can't see them, because they are following quite close in my blind-spot.

In particular, when a rider isn't easily visible, if we catch a slower vehicle and I want to overtake, then it's really difficult to know what the rider is planning. I normally end up putting the indicator on and waiting for a reaction.

Gareth wrote:Doesn't much of the perception issue arise when riders are too close behind, whether in the lane or offside?

I find myself quite happy when a rider is following behind at a reasonable distance, and can be seen in the centre mirror, and when they are at a reasonable following distance offside, and can be seen in the door mirror. I get concerned when I know a rider is close but I can't see them, because they are following quite close in my blind-spot.

In particular, when a rider isn't easily visible, if we catch a slower vehicle and I want to overtake, then it's really difficult to know what the rider is planning. I normally end up putting the indicator on and waiting for a reaction.

Harassing is one of the things I warn riders about. Too often when they move up from the following to the overtaking position for a 3 stage (however extreme that may or may not be), they then stay there, dancing about changing position. This IS intimidating.

Move up, assess, and drop back if there's no opportunity. Repeat.

I have to say for me the most frustrating thing about overtaking is a lot of vehicles' inconsistent speed, in all the wrong places. Often when you move out into the oncoming lane that seems to wake them up and they accelerate. Also a lot of opportunities to overtake would be when leaving a restricted speed area, but loads of cars 'go' 2-300 yards early.

GTR1400MAN wrote:...Also a lot of opportunities to overtake would be when leaving a restricted speed area, but loads of cars 'go' 2-300 yards early.

Or if someone is tailgating me then they go for an overtake when the new higher limit is in sight...what do I do...wait patiently for the new limit, then immediately look for an overtake on the car that's just passed or start to accelerate early and keep then behind? I think both scenarios give the impression I am a somewhat aggressive driver - which I'm am not, hopefully.