Breaking wind – your tips on my overtaking scenario

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Gareth
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Re: Breaking wind – your tips on my overtaking scenario

Postby Gareth » Thu May 06, 2021 3:39 pm

Ohlins wrote:If I have $10-worth-of-attention and spend $6 of my 'attention budget' on an overtake, it only leaves me $4 to spend on other things requiring attention.

I'm not sure that's entirely a helpful way to think about it.

This is from a cager point of view and maybe it doesn't translate but, it seems to me that, generally, most of the attention budget for an overtake is spent long before the overtake actually takes place, in planning and preparation. Come the fateful moments, it's taking hardly anything at all from the attention budget.
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...

vanman
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Re: Breaking wind – your tips on my overtaking scenario

Postby vanman » Thu May 06, 2021 5:25 pm

Horse wrote:
Ohlins wrote:riding through deer parks at dusk


As for the deer, it’s estimated that at least 40,000 are killed on UK roads each year, and possibly as many as 74,000. The peak months for collisions are May and October to January, and peak times are the early morning, when deer go in search of a mate or new territories.[/i]


And we still buy Turkeys at Christmas. Venison is far better and should be nice a tender, apart from the road grit :D

Jonquirk
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Re: Breaking wind – your tips on my overtaking scenario

Postby Jonquirk » Thu May 06, 2021 6:55 pm

You should miss out on most of the grit as long as you don’t insist on crackling.

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Horse
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Re: Breaking wind – your tips on my overtaking scenario

Postby Horse » Thu May 06, 2021 7:39 pm

vanman wrote: Venison is far better


We had lamb last Christmas. Deer are only sheep on stilts.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

Ohlins
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Re: Breaking wind – your tips on my overtaking scenario

Postby Ohlins » Fri May 07, 2021 11:35 am

Gareth wrote:it seems to me that, generally, most of the attention budget for an overtake is spent long before the overtake actually takes place, in planning and preparation. Come the fateful moments, it's taking hardly anything at all from the attention budget.


While I agree about planning, the overtake itself still demands some attention mid-manoeuvre. In a traditional 3-stage overtake, I still need to spend some of my 'attention budget' while offside. Is there any new Information? How has the driver ahead responded to my move offside? What does the road surface look like now I'm offside? Are there any hidden entrances that I missed when preparing the overtake? And so on.

And in the circumstance I described, I was treating the multi-vehicle situation as a series of individual overtakes. Despite preparation and planning, a multi-vehicle pass requires significant attention because I'm actively looking for any new Information that may arise during the manoeuvre.

Gareth
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Re: Breaking wind – your tips on my overtaking scenario

Postby Gareth » Fri May 07, 2021 12:24 pm

Ohlins wrote:the overtake itself still demands some attention mid-manoeuvre. In a traditional 3-stage overtake, I still need to spend some of my 'attention budget' while offside. Is there any new Information? How has the driver ahead responded to my move offside? What does the road surface look like now I'm offside? Are there any hidden entrances that I missed when preparing the overtake? And so on.

These seem like preparation - you move out and assess before committing. In a traditional overtake, moving out to assess is a necessary preparatory step. The way it's written makes it sound a bit like the decision is made before moving out, so then everything would get a bit stressful.

Once committed, the only extra information is how other vehicles are responding. Everything else you would ordinarily be doing, wouldn't you? Although having committed, there are few choices remaining.

Maybe I'm splitting hairs but I don't think so. Preparation is before committing, not during.
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...

janetwise-griggs
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Re: Breaking wind – your tips on my overtaking scenario

Postby janetwise-griggs » Fri May 07, 2021 7:15 pm

I never move out and assess, I only move out to overtake when I'm sure, it's less stressful and in my view safer.

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Breaking wind – your tips on my overtaking scenario

Postby GTR1400MAN » Fri May 07, 2021 7:20 pm

You should move and out and then do your final assessment before committing to the overtake. You can abort and return to your lane.

If you "fire the gun" from behind the target vehicle you a) stand a good chance of hitting it, b) risk having missed something you can't see from behind the target vehicle.
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

Ohlins
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Re: Breaking wind – your tips on my overtaking scenario

Postby Ohlins » Fri May 07, 2021 7:21 pm

I agree with Mike.

Gareth wrote:the only extra information is how other vehicles are responding.


I'm afraid I disagree because the world looks different from the offside. For example, my view of the road surface has changed because I'm looking at it from another angle; I might spot something previously hidden by the vehicle ahead. Also, an offside view may reveal hidden entrances or animals in adjacent foliage because they may be easier to discern from a different angle.

If I prepare well in advance and decide the overtake is safe, I am assuming no human error in my observation and planning. But I might have made a mistake. So, I prefer to forward plan and also check from the offside before committing to an overtake (i.e. I move and out and then do my final assessment before committing to an overtake).

Gareth
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Re: Breaking wind – your tips on my overtaking scenario

Postby Gareth » Sat May 08, 2021 9:19 am

Ohlins wrote:
Gareth wrote:the only extra information is how other vehicles are responding.

the world looks different from the offside.

I think we're talking past each other :(

Offside before overtaking is where you decide whether to overtake? I think you agree, because that's what Mike said.

So (I think) we agree that being offside while deciding isn't part of the overtake, it's part of the preparation. So all the items you mentioned are preparation, however some of them are what you already need to be doing just to be moving forward (road surface, hidden entrances, and so on).

Come the overtake, everything is decided, you go. While overtaking, you continue to do the same things as you need to be doing to move forward, with the additional consideration of how the other vehicle is responding.

Ohlins wrote:If I prepare well in advance and decide the overtake is safe

If there is a difference in points of view I think it may be here. It sounds as if you are making the decision while following, then moving out to check.

I think the safer approach is that, while following, all you are doing is looking for an opportunity to go offside. Once there you can assess, return to the nearside if it's not on, go if it is, or wait there until it's clear one way or the other.
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...


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