Advanced Driving Hub

crr003 wrote:

GTR1400MAN wrote:
Again - terminology - a "proper" blind spot check is a good look over the shoulder.

Changes in helmets (full face chin bar) and bike gear (shoulder armour) have meant that a look around over the shoulder is far more difficult than it used to be.

Nowadays, it's easier - more feasible - to look sodeways and 'down' to clear the blind spot.

crr003 wrote:Again - terminology - a "proper" blind spot check is a good look over the shoulder. Your blind spot check is a "kissing the parrot" check in a car - just moving 90 degrees so the peripheral vision will pick up movement. Imagine a little parrot on your shoulder and you give it a kiss. Funny lot ADIs......

Have they been watching too much Python? Is it a Norwegian Blue?

On a serious note, that's an awful analogy.

GTR1400MAN wrote:

crr003 wrote:Again - terminology - a "proper" blind spot check is a good look over the shoulder. Your blind spot check is a "kissing the parrot" check in a car - just moving 90 degrees so the peripheral vision will pick up movement. Imagine a little parrot on your shoulder and you give it a kiss. Funny lot ADIs......

Have they been watching too much Python? Is it a Norwegian Blue?

On a serious note, that's an awful analogy.

And you thought I was making it up! Only in Bristol!

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bris ... rot-268389

Rellies are living in Cornwall. They were outside the house when a neighbour parked up and got out.

She was wearing a furry scarf.

Actually two pet rats!

GTR1400MAN wrote:

crr003 wrote:On a learner motorbike test would the powers that be expect a "proper" shoulder check?

Yes.

I have since spoken to learner instructor and the key phrase is "effective rear obs". He says he only teaches mirror plus blind spot check for pulling away from the kerb. A quick search online finds many school sites saying "shoulder check" or "over the shoulder check" as well as "blind spot check". So who knows?

Reading between the lines I can feel local examiner preferences having some influence.

GTR1400MAN wrote:

GTR1400MAN wrote:

crr003 wrote:On a learner motorbike test would the powers that be expect a "proper" shoulder check?

Yes.

I have since spoken to learner instructor and the key phrase is "effective rear obs". He says he only teaches mirror plus blind spot check for pulling away from the kerb. A quick search online finds many school sites saying "shoulder check" or "over the shoulder check" as well as "blind spot check". So who knows?

Reading between the lines I can feel local examiner preferences having some influence.

Getting a bit away from your normally super videos!

I meant "Moving off" from the side of the road - I can understand moving off could be interpreted as moving off from traffic lights or give way lines etc.

Here's something from the latest DVSA book (DT1) on how to test people (cars) relating to moving off (from the side of the road):
"The examiner should observe whether the candidate first sees to the front, then to the rear, that the way is clear for pulling out, gives the appropriate signal if necessary, and moves away smoothly and safely......"

It doesn't say the percentage of rear observation, but mirrors cover a fraction of the 180 degrees.

Looking at my old "Driving the Essential Skills", which is the how people are supposed to be taught to drive (ha!), the "moving off" bit includes:
"Now make your final safety checks, use your mirrors and look over your right shoulder to check the blind spot.
Decide if a signal is necessary."

So a pedantic (well trained?) Examiner will expect an over the shoulder/blind spot check to the right. Note the forward thinking advice to signal if necessary. Good luck finding an ADI who will teach that level of advanced technique. Better/safer/easier/quicker to just always signal.

The great advantage of the shoulder check is that it doesn't need electronics.

crr003 wrote: Some ADIs teach this robotic six point check starting from the rear near side blind spot irrespective of road layout/hazards.

This teaches nothing other than to make the head movements, probably why so many appear to look but fail to see.

exportmanuk wrote:

crr003 wrote: Some ADIs teach this robotic six point check starting from the rear near side blind spot irrespective of road layout/hazards.

This teaches nothing other than to make the head movements, probably why so many appear to look but fail to see.

Indeed. One (mirror) of my [many? Seems to be an ever increasing number ... ] pet hates is commentary (mirror) videos where (mirror) all the driver (mirror) seems to do is (mirror) want to check that the (mirror) hasn't fallen off.

Tell us what's there!

Another point is timing. All too often you see riders looking over to the right - mirror, shoulder, lifesaver, whatever - exactly when there attention should be ahead, keeping aware of a serious danger. Also on timing, do a mirror check during a period of 'light' mental load, rather than waiting for a hazard to trigger 'the system'.

Another point is timing. All too often you see riders looking over to the right - mirror, shoulder, lifesaver, whatever - exactly when there attention should be ahead, keeping aware of a serious danger. Also on timing, do a mirror check during a period of 'light' mental load, rather than waiting for a hazard to trigger 'the system'.

,

Absolutely, same with indicating do it while you do not have to work out the hazard. Better to indicate early than late. (go on guys argue)