Motorcycle videos

[GTR1400MAN]

It's been a while but my latest blockbuster is now out
Mirror? Shoulder Check? Blind Spot Check? Lifesaver?
What do you mean when you say them?

[exportmanuk]

Mirrors is one of the things that I hear the most complaints about all too often they say the can only see their elbows. I ask why do they have both mirrors aimed at their elbows. I ask "Why do you need to see exactly the same thing in both mirrors? Even worse car drivers who have all three mirrors focused 30 meter behind them. Great if you want to read the registration place of the vehicle following not so great if you want to see what approaching from behind

[Jonquirk]

I’m doing my CBT next month; would you care to explain, briefly, the difference between a shoulder check and a lifesaver?

[Horse]

Lifesaver is typically a final check, into the blind spot, before a manoeuvre, to ensure you're not e.g. turning right across someone overtaking, or leaving a roundabout to the left from near the centre island across a vehicle in the 'outer ring' traffic space.

Key points are to have an 'escape route' ready in case there is something there, and to check early enough that you have time and space to use the plan.

A shoulder check is pretty much redundant if you have a decent mirror view.

[GTR1400MAN]

I’m doing my CBT next month; would you care to explain, briefly, the difference between a shoulder check and a lifesaver?

The video was made as the 3 terms

Blind spot check
Lifesaver
Shoulder check

get used in different ways by different people.

Blind spot check is the look left/right to look into the area the mirrors don't cover
Lifesaver is the last blindspot check you do before committing to a manoeuvre.

Shoulder check - Hmm, it used to be a full blown look over the shoulder but as Horse says, almost redundant these days. However MANY still use the term when describing the first 2. You'll see in the video there are places where you do have to look over your shoulder (but not fully behind). Mainly acute junctions and slip roads.

[crr003]

.....
A shoulder check is pretty much redundant if you have a decent mirror view.

In my constant search for knowledge, I realise this is the advanced motorbiking section and you might be talking about the dynamic free flowing use of mirrors, but if you relied on mirrors for moving off in a DVSA car test, the examiner would fail you.
On a learner motorbike test would the powers that be expect a "proper" shoulder check?

[GTR1400MAN]

On a learner motorbike test would the powers that be expect a "proper" shoulder check?

Yes.

I do them. Laybys, side of the road ... it's a bit like an acute junction.

The video was more aimed at those who want full blown over the shoulder checks all over the place.

Edit: I'll expand on that.

In urban areas I'll watch with a turned head, but laybys on B or duals I tend to have a good look with a full blown head turn and then monitor using the mirror.

Question for you ... what does a full blown over the shoulder check, as opposed to a blind spot check, gain me in a car.?In mine all I see is a pillar with a seat belt mount!

[Horse]

.....
A shoulder check is pretty much redundant if you have a decent mirror view.

In my constant search for knowledge, I realise this is the advanced motorbiking section and you might be talking about the dynamic free flowing use of mirrors, but if you relied on mirrors for moving off in a DVSA car test, the examiner would fail you.
On a learner motorbike test would the powers that be expect a "proper" shoulder check?

To be fair, I'm not a CBT/L instructor, so my advice was an answer to the question. And I didn't say to "rely on the mirrors".

What the DVSA demand and expect may not always align with the real world, etc. Examples include not being able to take training on a BMW C1!

Back to what they expect: what is the look 'for'? Is it a full turn to look back as far as you can? Or a check into the blindspot?

https://videobiker.co.uk/module-two/ski ... ervations/

Advises:

All manoeuvres start with effective observations, allowing riders to first gather information. Rear mirror checks (to check what is happening directly behind) are required before signalling, altering speed, changing direction (lifesaver required as well), plus on approach to junctions and hazards.

But rely on your instructors as they will know local examiners' quirks.

[GTR1400MAN]

And now you can see the confusion.

That page Horse has linked to refers to a lifesaver as "final over the shoulder observations (into the blind spot area)" mixing the two things up.

Then further down it, says "Correctly timed ‘lifesavers’ can save your life! Turning the head fully to look behind is not necessary, the mirrors inform the rider what is going on behind. A ‘lifesaver’ or ‘rear observation’ is chin to shoulder, to check the blind spot."

Is it any wonder riders get confused?

[crr003]

On a learner motorbike test would the powers that be expect a "proper" shoulder check?

Yes.

I do them. Laybys, side of the road ... it's a bit like an acute junction.

The video was more aimed at those who want full blown over the shoulder checks all over the place.

Edit: I'll expand on that.

In urban areas I'll watch with a turned head, but laybys on B or duals I tend to have a good look with a full blown head turn and then monitor using the mirror.

Question for you ... what does a full blown over the shoulder check, as opposed to a blind spot check, gain me in a car.?In mine all I see is a pillar with a seat belt mount!

Again - terminology - a "proper" blind spot check is a good look over the shoulder. Your blind spot check is a "kissing the parrot" check in a car - just moving 90 degrees so the peripheral vision will pick up movement. Imagine a little parrot on your shoulder and you give it a kiss. Funny lot ADIs......

A benefit to the neck wrenching look? - you can see the car pulling out of the driveway at "5 o'clock". No point arguing that there is no driveway. Modern cars are crap though. Had an Associate with a Vauxhall Crossland - virtually zero rear visibility.

I once took an experienced biker to a B Test on behalf of his instructor who couldn't make the test. Biker had to get a sensible means of transport!
Examiner did the "pull up on the left..... drive on when you're ready...." but was late back for tea so hurried the bloke. He drove off without checking the blind spot. In his defence, the biker said he knew there was nothing behind him as he pulled up, so didn't bother looking round. Fail.
There is flexibility in the DVSA, but when it comes to tests, people go for a standard repeatable formula. Go on any ADI forum and say "the six point check isn't mandatory" then run away quickly. Some ADIs teach this robotic six point check starting from the rear near side blind spot irrespective of road layout/hazards.