Corner lines - thoughts?

Topics relating to Advanced Riding on bikes
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Horse
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Re: Corner lines - thoughts?

Postby Horse » Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:41 pm

jont- wrote:And yet at another point they talk about the hedge line /might/ tell you where the road goes, but ignore the 7.5T truck showing quite clearly there is /a/ road there :lol:


My thought was 'access road, truck likely to swing wide turning out'.


GTR1400MAN wrote:It's difficult to judge the offsiding without on bike footage.


I did the highly technical video analysis technique of putting a piece of paper on the screen :)

It aligned the rider's head with the field side of the hedge.

GTR1400MAN wrote:I'll be a bit controversial though and say that the majority of offsiding (as opposed to straightening) I see riders do is often flamboyant, 'look at me', actions and within the posted limits of little benefit.


Not controversial with me. One of the trafpols who helped out with the 'L' training was a 'double One', cars and bikes. He said that, on one of his advanced courses, they kept within their lane, no offsiding.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

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Horse
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Re: Corner lines - thoughts?

Postby Horse » Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:15 pm

Horse wrote:
Rider is heading 'up' the image.

Any thoughts on the offside position?
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KMppJBkpwpg/ ... 131912.jpg


Something was niggling me about this image, I am now thinking that the video editor might have been annoyingly 'creative'. Although the road appears to be a left-straight-right sequence - but look at the centre line, it's not curved, instead a set of straights.

In which case, apologies for doubting what was going on ;)
Last edited by Horse on Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

Gareth
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Re: Corner lines - thoughts?

Postby Gareth » Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:17 pm

GTR1400MAN wrote:I'll be a bit controversial though and say that the majority of offsiding (as opposed to straightening) I see riders do is often flamboyant, 'look at me', actions and within the posted limits of little benefit.

I expect it's different for cars but I find that some drivers use the offside to show to others (or themselves) that they can, or because it fits with their self-image (being 'advanced'), or even as a 'policy' with no thought behind it, generally with hardly any real benefit. I prefer there to be a reason, which might be keeping away from poor quality road surface, keeping away from entrances or turnings on the nearside, to smooth out a bend at speed, and so on.
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...

Jonquirk
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Re: Corner lines - thoughts?

Postby Jonquirk » Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:50 pm

I got the impression from the screen grab that the bike was on the “wrong” side of the hazard markings as a result of straightlining the two minor bends. Without a riders eye view it is difficult to say how advisable that would be, but the slow marking on the road suggests that it would not be without risk.

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Re: Corner lines - thoughts?

Postby Horse » Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:09 pm

Jonquirk wrote:I got the impression from the screen grab that the bike was on the “wrong” side of the hazard markings as a result of straightlining the two minor bends. Without a riders eye view it is difficult to say how advisable that would be, but the slow marking on the road suggests that it would not be without risk.


There's a set of 4 videos, seemingly using the same section of road, if you're keen ;)

https://youtube.com/c/SuzukiBikesUK
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Re: Corner lines - thoughts?

Postby GTR1400MAN » Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:39 pm

Horse wrote:Another example is the bit on steering, only making one steering input. Great-ish for the bend they show, but not on a longer bend where an initial steer is needed to lean the bike and track parallel to the edge until the exit is clearly visible where, if you want to go across to the apex then exit, you have to make a second steer. Otherwise, going onto a 'wider radius' line would have you in the hedge or oncoming traffic.

I just watched Episode 3.

I'm sure they are saying keep a closed throttle until after you have started to turn in.

I've always tried to have got my speed adjusted and on a positive throttle before turning in.
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

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Re: Corner lines - thoughts?

Postby jont- » Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:41 pm

Horse wrote:
Jonquirk wrote:I got the impression from the screen grab that the bike was on the “wrong” side of the hazard markings as a result of straightlining the two minor bends. Without a riders eye view it is difficult to say how advisable that would be, but the slow marking on the road suggests that it would not be without risk.


There's a set of 4 videos, seemingly using the same section of road, if you're keen ;)

https://youtube.com/c/SuzukiBikesUK

Do you they are driving to what they know rather than what they see? There's an awful lot of motoring videos where reference is made to "knowing" the road as allowing someone to make good progress.

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Re: Corner lines - thoughts?

Postby GTR1400MAN » Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:52 pm

jont- wrote:Do you they are driving to what they know rather than what they see? There's an awful lot of motoring videos where reference is made to "knowing" the road as allowing someone to make good progress.

Someone raised that point on YouTube regarding the offsiding but sadly the discussion fell apart.
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

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Re: Corner lines - thoughts?

Postby Horse » Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:19 pm

jont- wrote:Do you they are driving to what they know rather than what they see? There's an awful lot of motoring videos where reference is made to "knowing" the road as allowing someone to make good progress.


Good point, and I don't know. FYI Rapid are all serving or ex-traffic, and professional instructors, so probably have their favourite training routes - as do most instructors.

Whether making a video or giving a demo drive, there is a risk of, or temptation to, put on a show. There's a 'ride like the police' video, for public viewing, that includes some offsiding.

Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

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Re: Corner lines - thoughts?

Postby Horse » Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:55 pm

GTR1400MAN wrote:
I just watched Episode 3.

I'm sure they are saying keep a closed throttle until after you have started to turn in.

I've always tried to have got my speed adjusted and on a positive throttle before turning in.


When I taught with the MSF, they had the system 'Slow, Look/Lean/Roll.

Note the punctuation. Slow, then at the start of the turn, the other three actions together. [This is the basis of what Thames Vale Advanced Motorcyclists 'Look Lean Roll' course]

However, I'm aligned with your views, and I prefer the sequence of Slow Settle Steer. Kevin Williams recommends the same sequence, I think we both came up with it independently.

Slow - brakes if necessary
Settle - bit of throttle
Steer - head turn & press

To me, by covering in detail the benefits of getting weight on the front, they almost seemed to be verging on encouraging trail braking. Also, they explain the benefits including quicker steering - but elsewhere advise against it.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.


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