A few more videos

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: A few more videos

Postby GTR1400MAN » Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:19 pm

Here's my latest video. Think it may generate a few comments on YouTube where trail braking has become one of THE discussion topics.

Trail Braking and ROADCRAFT | Should I use it?

Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

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jcochrane
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Location: Surrey-Kent borders and wherever good driving roads are.

Re: A few more videos

Postby jcochrane » Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:18 am

Hi Mike, the main reasons you give for trail braking are the ones most often quoted and emphasising to corner at a higher speed. It may be different for bikes but from the perspective of cars I would say the main reason for public road driving is to add an extra layer of safety rather than speed. For most bends, having adjusted the approach speed to the stopping distance and taken the gear, the limit point has begun to move away at a speed greater than the car's and so some throttle can be applied. Often this movement of the limit point occurs before hinting and steering input. So trail braking is not appropriate in this instance. However there are a few bends where the limit point does not behave in this way (after adjusting the approach speed to stopping distance) remaining fairly static or even slowing on turning in. For these types of bends I like to keep my foot on the brake (with some or very little pressure or just covering, depending on the limit point) until there is confirmation that the limit point is starting to move away at a speed greater than the car's. At this point more acceleration can be applied safely. When on track though I would use trail braking for the reasons you mention.

Having said what my approach to trail braking is I accept that many use it because they want to go round the bend much faster or as often is the case they have gone into the bend at a speed that is above their comfort level having misjudged the approach speed because of poor observation.

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: A few more videos

Postby GTR1400MAN » Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:31 am

So where does the line lie between going into the corner 'too fast' and waiting for the limit point to start moving away? What is the extended very light braking giving you?

On the bikes, I always emphasise the fact that it is so easy to regain speed (most of us have way more horsepower than needed) it is much better to have over slowed on approach.

Now decreasing radius bends are another thing and do catch people out. They are why I dislike the "chasing the limit point" phrase. The amount of throttle we are using through the bend should be minimal. Just enough to keep a constant distance from the limit point. The gear we are in should allow us to lift gently (not chop) and maintain that distance if the limit point starts coming back towards us again.

We are discussing the finer points here, and the video came about due to the sheer number of "emperor's new clothes" trail braking videos on YouTube and the seemingly lack of anything countering this for road use from proponents of Roadcraft/Advanced riding. Over do the braking/lean on a bike and the front end will tuck under and down we go.
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

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jcochrane
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Location: Surrey-Kent borders and wherever good driving roads are.

Re: A few more videos

Postby jcochrane » Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:17 am

GTR1400MAN wrote:So where does the line lie between going into the corner 'too fast' and waiting for the limit point to start moving away? What is the extended very light braking giving you?


I don't understand the first question. Like you I prefer going in a little slower, what I call "below your comfort level" so that you can stop on the tarmac available comfortably. The answer to the second question is safety as it cuts down time and distance if needing to slow or stop. On a drive yesterday this was beneficial on three occasions. One occasion involved two bikers chasing each other round a blind right hand bend too fast resulting in crossing the centre line and leaning in so that head and body were well over to the right hand side of the road. I was approaching the bend from the opposite direction. Trail braking allowed for stopping in far less than the normal stopping distance for the tarmac available as the foot was already on the brake (left foot braking in this case as I was driving an auto) and avoiding an accident by allowing bikers extra time and distance to get back to their side of the road.

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: A few more videos

Postby GTR1400MAN » Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:46 pm

jcochrane wrote:I don't understand the first question.

I was poorly trying to make the point of one man's 'not having braked enough for a corner' could be another man's 'waiting for the limit point to start moving'.

For me in the situation you describe I'd cover the brakes (even in my car), but not have them on. It's easier on the bike as all the controls are readily to hand/feet all the time.
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

Gareth
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Re: A few more videos

Postby Gareth » Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:25 am

GTR1400MAN wrote:I was poorly trying to make the point of one man's 'not having braked enough for a corner' could be another man's 'waiting for the limit point to start moving'.

I suppose the question is one of intent. Has the driver or rider planned to be braking until the limit point starts to move, and therefore has planned to deal with the more difficult transition from braking to throttle mid-bend? In my experience, many who say they trail braked into a bend didn't actually plan to do so ...
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...


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