Block Changes - How Many Do You Miss?

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
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Horse
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Re: Block Changes - How Many Do You Miss?

Postby Horse » Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:17 pm

Gareth wrote:
Horse wrote:3rd is comfy up to about 60, about 3.5k revs, so so some in reserve

What would you go up to while accelerating? Are you happy changing down from 4th/5th to 3rd at the road-speed / engine-speed you'd be at when changing up?


Typically 3rd to 4th at 40ish when accelerating. Very happy to do smooth changes up and down with matched revs.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Block Changes - How Many Do You Miss?

Postby GTR1400MAN » Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:00 am

Only just seen this topic. When its title appeared I thought it was going to be about missed opportunities. ;)

Anyway, the coming off a dual c/w or motorway onto a long slip road often comes up. Yes, even on motorbikes. Drivers and riders often want to stay systematic but complain their vehicle won't make it to the lights/RAB/junction in 6th gear. So take an early, nicely rev matched, gear change as you join the slip. How is this not systematic? It's a change of circumstances/traffic levels/flowing speed and is often going to be down hill. You'd down change for a hill.

In my wife's Yaris I regularly miss 3rd out going up and down. It has too many gears with 6 and, 3rd and 4th are very closely matched.

Let's stir the pot a little. :) An observation from driving DCT cars and bikes is that they will go down through each gear sequentially, while I am braking, with no destabilisation. True, you are never really out of gear, but with a long slip in/on a conventional machine there really is no issue having a couple of gear changes as the circumstances change as you travel the slip. As long as you are not doing a brake, gear, brake, gear dance, or holding the brake over a long distance while doing multiple gear changes (other than at the end of braking) it would be hard for anyone to argue you are not being systematic.
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

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jont-
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Re: Block Changes - How Many Do You Miss?

Postby jont- » Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:52 am

GTR1400MAN wrote:As long as you are not doing a brake, gear, brake, gear dance

You just need to learn to heel and toe :twisted:

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Horse
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Re: Block Changes - How Many Do You Miss?

Postby Horse » Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:08 am

GTR1400MAN wrote: So take an early, nicely rev matched, gear change as you join the slip. How is this not systematic? It's a change of circumstances/traffic levels/flowing speed and is often going to be down hill. You'd down change for a hill.


I can't believe you've never seen my views on the order of the 4 (or 5) 'S's :) : Safe, Smooth, System . . . ;)
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Block Changes - How Many Do You Miss?

Postby GTR1400MAN » Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:13 pm

Horse wrote:
GTR1400MAN wrote: So take an early, nicely rev matched, gear change as you join the slip. How is this not systematic? It's a change of circumstances/traffic levels/flowing speed and is often going to be down hill. You'd down change for a hill.


I can't believe you've never seen my views on the order of the 4 (or 5) 'S's :) : Safe, Smooth, System . . . ;)

I'm sure I've seen them in debates on here. Dont want to derail this topic but I have always been taught and use, Safe, Smooth, Systematic, Speed, Sparkle. Speed coming as a result of the first 3, not what you set out to do. ;)
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

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Strangely Brown
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Re: Block Changes - How Many Do You Miss?

Postby Strangely Brown » Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:08 pm

I think Horse's unhappiness is with the order of system and smooth in the original list.

Safety
System
Smoothness
Speed
Sparkle
(you may sacrifice any lower item for a higher one, but not the other way round)

IIUC, he believes that you should sacrifice being systematic in order to be smooth.

I await correction.

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Horse
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Re: Block Changes - How Many Do You Miss?

Postby Horse » Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:51 pm

Not quite ;) Not 'should'. That's not so much of a correction as perhaps a misunderstanding :)

It's more a case of 'if done well, it shouldn't be an issue'* whereas driving 'systematically' doesn't guarantee smooth, indeed your inclusion of 'may sacrifice' acknowledges that aspect.

* As in GTR's examples of changing down before braking.

FWIW I would rather be driven by a smooth driver than a 'systematic but unsmooth' one.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

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Horse
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Re: Block Changes - How Many Do You Miss?

Postby Horse » Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:57 pm

From here:
http://the-ride-info.blogspot.com/p/cornering.html


Instead of training riders to towards an ‘advanced’ test, I’ve been working more on sorting problems, really helping riders to enjoy their riding, and overcoming hurdles they had.
As part of that I developed the three-level Whole Rider assessment format – I really must make that available some day – which is a single assessment format which can be used for all riders from novice through to advanced.
For riders who simply want to enjoy their riding, without the ‘progress’ imperative often felt by those taking advanced training, the ‘speed’ and ‘sparkle’ elements may be irrelevant.
Also, those riders may not want to ride like a police officer on his best behaviour, they may prefer to move around like a motocross rider, or hang off like a grand prix star. That’s up to them to chose!
So I’ve shortened the 5xS back to three. Keeping ‘Safety’ and ‘Smooth’, I’ve removed the final three and, instead, added ‘Style’.
As I was moving away from ‘advanced’ training, I simplified my basic assessment of someone’s riding (although I’d use the Whole Rider Assessment and an advanced test format as necessary), asking just a few simple questions:
“Is their riding safe?”
“Is the riding in control?”
“Does the rider know what they’re doing and why?”
Which ties reasonably well with Safety Smooth Style.
Now, Q‘3’ isn’t just about ‘style’, it also encompasses far more about the rider’s awareness and the decisions they make. But from decisions come style, even self-expression.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

Gareth
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Re: Block Changes - How Many Do You Miss?

Postby Gareth » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:21 pm

GTR1400MAN wrote:the coming off a dual c/w or motorway onto a long slip road often comes up. Yes, even on motorbikes. Drivers and riders often want to stay systematic but complain their vehicle won't make it to the lights/RAB/junction in 6th gear. So take an early, nicely rev matched, gear change as you join the slip. How is this not systematic? It's a change of circumstances

I think you could reasonably leave it there.

To the road user on the main carriageway, the off-slip is a hazard, so the driver or rider should run through the system. Just because there's another hazard looming on the horizon doesn't mean that _this_ hazard isn't important.
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...

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Horse
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Re: Block Changes - How Many Do You Miss?

Postby Horse » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:55 pm

Indeed. There are times to deal with them as a single plan, other times as two separate hazards. Don't know where, but years ago I heard that termed 'grouping' hazards.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.


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