Masters - Safety Vs Progress

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
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dvenman
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Re: Masters - Safety Vs Progress

Postby dvenman » Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:19 pm

I was more interested - at a quick glance - at the interaction between David and Carol. I'm going to have to dig a little deeper...

But from my point of view, am I a safer driver having undertaken IAM, RoSPA and further coaching? I think so...

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jont-
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Re: Masters - Safety Vs Progress

Postby jont- » Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:52 pm

crr003 wrote:Quite so. I'm sure his customers wouldn't expect a proper Masters drive to the airport.
I've known professional drivers and ADIs want IAM on their advertising as a selling point, but not drive/teach like that.

I'd much rather have a masters drive than the typical one I get :lol:

I'd read the brake comments the other way - instead of "just touching" he should have been more comfortable making use of them to allow more progress.

If planning/hazard management was 2, then I wouldn't say he was overly focussed on safety either. I think just too used to bimbling along.

crr003
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Re: Masters - Safety Vs Progress

Postby crr003 » Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:01 pm

Horse wrote:
crr003 wrote: Do you remember the thread about 1/3 or 2/3s rule for acceleration between hazards?


I've only ever tried it for myself after reading about it on t'interweb.

I don't like the way (from the way I read and [mis?]understood?) it seems to place emphasis on getting from 'Here >>>> there' which may remove caution for 'here>>>danger in between>>> there' IYSWIM or, to use jargon, emphasis on limit point rather than surprise horizon*

* See the second on-road photo in the article, annotated with the limit point - which neatly ignores the (much closer) blind entrance through a high wall.

Are you sponsored to get the phrase "surprise horizon" into a post every couple of months? :P

What's the proper technique then - slow down to about 4 mph expecting a pram to come flying out of the driveway till you can get a good look up it?

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Horse
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Re: Masters - Safety Vs Progress

Postby Horse » Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:02 pm

Have a look at the picture! It's in a village, a stone wall about 8' high, 'vehicle'-sized aperture with huge fuggoff wrought iron gates just visible, with a nice weed-free gravel driveway. The wall is set back no more than a metre from the edge of the road.

In other words, it would be reasonable to expect a Range Rover to emerge. And, as you can see, the Range would have to nose out for the driver to get any view.

So what? You ask.

Well,

1. The picture is to show us the limit point, so if we're concentrating on that and planning for the right hand bend, then where would we position for view?

2. Yes, I do bang on about the SH. And this is a classic example of where someone has progressed to a very high standard of driving - but can still apparently be blissfully unaware. So what do you suggest, that I shut up, encouraging that blissful ignorance?
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Masters - Safety Vs Progress

Postby GTR1400MAN » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:45 pm

Where is this picture Horse? I can't see a link to an article in this topic.
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

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Horse
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Re: Masters - Safety Vs Progress

Postby Horse » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:50 pm

Horse wrote:https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/so-whats-masters-david-barnes/


Post #1

In the linked article there are two 'road' pictures and a photo of his report sheet.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

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Strangely Brown
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Re: Masters - Safety Vs Progress

Postby Strangely Brown » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:38 pm

Horse wrote:So what do you suggest, that I shut up, encouraging that blissful ignorance?


You could just answer the question: What speed would you consider safe there?

Personally, I don't believe that anyone living in that property would ever drive straight out so simply moving slightly away on approach would be quite sufficient. That still leaves room to reposition nearside for the RH bend.

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Horse
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Re: Masters - Safety Vs Progress

Postby Horse » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:52 pm

Strangely Brown wrote:
Horse wrote:So what do you suggest, that I shut up, encouraging that blissful ignorance?


You could just answer the question: What speed would you consider safe there?

Personally, I don't believe that anyone living in that property would ever drive straight out so simply moving slightly away on approach would be quite sufficient. That still leaves room to reposition nearside for the RH bend.


The "4mph?" seemed like a rhetorical question, and even if actually intended as a genuine question there isn't a single answer.

For example, which way is the Sun shining? If from the left, the there could well be a shadow preceding the vehicle.

I'm impressed by your confidence that no-one would ever pull out without checking. If that was repeated at all give way junctions, it'd be a miracle. And even if they check, crashes still happen - people make mistakes. What other assumptions do you make? :)
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

hir
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Re: Masters - Safety Vs Progress

Postby hir » Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:13 pm

crr003 wrote:
Horse wrote:
I thought it was - but hadn't realised there was a 'test only' option.

Well I could be wrong. There used to be a test only option but I can't see it specified now.



That's interesting. There is certainly still a test only option for re-tests (£249). But, you could be right that there is no test only option for first-timers (price £299). One of the things that really p****d-off the IAM was that groups were mentoring their members for free who then put in for test at a cost of £149 instead of the full mentoring price of old at £250. Thus denying substantial sums of income for the IAM. So, in order to kill off that financial loophole and the loss of a massive amount of revenue that was disappearing down the "free mentoring financial black hole" they may have decided to make paid-for mentoring compulsory for all first- timers. I don't know if that's correct but it's an interesting question to ask HQ.

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Horse
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Re: Masters - Safety Vs Progress

Postby Horse » Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:30 pm

Ah, the old fallacy of lost revenue . . .

As with music piracy, dating back to when people copied their LPs over to C90 tapes. "We're losing out on sales!" Actually, you're not unless a blank tape was the same price as an LP. - which wasn't the case, so they only lost one LP sale for the many copies made. Also ignores that those listeners might become long-term fans, buying albums in future and going to gigs
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.


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