Braking

[Horse]

is a false horizon or, maybe better, a mirage.

I heard a conversation . . .

"Why are you driving around with your fog lights on, it's not foggy or poor visibility?"

"It's dark, that's poor visibility"

"I can see the stars, how much further do you need to see?"

[Revian]

...but may be deemed off-topic and annihilated...

[Strangely Brown]

Yes, I've just looked and the you're quite right about 1994.
Although, if we're really pedantic, wasn't the first version "the manual of police driving instruction"?
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That mid-50s version was a published book, based on instructor notes. Those notes had been gathered and developed for 20 years.

Indeed. But the reminder from true blue was that it was/is intended to be accompanied by a course of instruction. i.e. it's a syllabus. You then implied that that was irrelevant because it is on open sale to the public. It is. But only since 1955.

However, although without delving into the dark depths of the cupboard at home I can't check, I think the first published versions didn't really cover limit point analysis.

The timeline says 1977 ed. That would be "The Blue Book".

[StressedDave]

The further back the braking started, the further we tended to sail (using a fixed braking pressure) passed the sign.

Which brings us squarely back to the 'Games' and using no brakes to explore better long-distance planning.

There's another aspect to this long-distance stuff. People (as in 'humans') simply can't assess well at long distances, it's a limitation of our eyes that we can't work out exactly how fast something is approaching, via looming and other cues. The worst case for this is high speed overtaking, in the face of oncoming traffic. Actually, it's worse the smaller the object in the distance is, e.g. motorcycle rather than car.

I wonder whether the problem you saw was somehow linked? Or, is it something that might improve by directed practice?

No, it's improved by ditching the whole no brakes thing -we were in a modern Jaguar with an auto box, so not the world's greatest amount of engine braking -and accepting that getting reasonably close before deciding what needs to be done. You cannot long range plan without a really good pair of binoculars and the clairvoyant ability of Doris Stokes. For those in the real world, too much can change over that extended period, so you might as well get a lot closer to limit the number of things that change.

I'm sure you could get better by directed practice, but over the distance most were chosing to haul the car down from 60, it just didn't work. There's another effect not helping matters. You simply cannot get the modulation right unless you've got a stiff one (pedal that is).

My honest view as that we're not that far apart, but without some sort of demo on either side, we're not going to find out how much.

[hir]

But I don't think anyone interprets these words in the literal sense implied by the dissection of the limit point zone

I think [some] people do.

I'm sure they do when discussing the technique. But I'm equally sure that's not how they actually use Limit Point technique (ie. in the literal sense) to determine approach and entry speed when they're driving. If they did it would be very scary for both driver and passengers. This would entail driving "on the limit", with no room for error or contingency, which I don't think is particularly prevalent amongst our esteemed fellow users of Limit Point Technique.

In my experience most users of Limit Point technique will be planning to stop some distance before the Surprise Horizon (SH) line shown on your photo. Let's call this a "pre-SH stopping point", although it won't be articulated as such by the driver, who most likely has never heard of SH. This stopping point will not be chosen as a result of conscious SH analysis on their part, or even being aware of the SH; as Dave says, most drivers are too busy considering other factors to have time to analyse the LP and SH to the degree suggested. A "pre-SH stopping point" line will be chosen not as a result of SH analysis but simply as a result of natural caution and the desire to build a margin of safety into the drive and not crash into anything. The more cautious the driver the greater the distance between a "pre-SH stopping point" and the actual SH.

[Adamxck]

I tried a similar technique to the 'green sign stopping exercise' on a pack(?) of pheasants that were faffing about in some dead ground on the other side of a crest. Happily I judged it correctly and was able to stop comfortably before flattening any of them. The thing is, I left it appriciatively later and applied the brakes far more firmly which had a pronounced affect on my control and judgment of the situation.
Thats not to say I saw them late and slammed on the anchors. I had the car and my feet set up in such a way as to bring the entire situation under control without any drama at all.
Had I applied my previous technique (if you can call it a technique) Ive no doubt it would have been hairy towards the end, having applied too little too early and deciding rather late that i should probably brake a bit harder in order to avoid a collision.

[Horse]

The timeline says 1977 ed. That would be "The Blue Book".

Good grief! How did they get around bends before then!?!?

[akirk]

The timeline says 1977 ed. That would be "The Blue Book".

Good grief! How did they get around bends before then!?!?

They had a chap with a red flag I think

Alasdair

[Horse]

No, it's improved by ditching the whole no brakes thing

I think we'll have to agree to disagree over that

My honest view as that we're not that far apart, but without some sort of demo on either side, we're not going to find out how much.

I think we'll have to agree to agree over that

[StressedDave]

No, it's improved by ditching the whole no brakes thing

I think we'll have to agree to disagree over that

Clearly... in facetious mode, you think I'm wrong and I know you're wrong... I don't have an issue with improving long-distance planning - my whole coaching framework revolves around it, but not in the 'lets start to slow down early to see if we can do it without the brakes' idea but in 'where do we need to start braking'. I'll try and come up with some explanation centring the 'default plan' idea.