Use of Indicator for Overtaking

[Edmund Kean]

In the last week, I’ve acquired a book by John Lyon - Advanced Driving; a pretty decent read it is too. I’ve a question for the collective wisdom concerning the way he advocates using the indicator for overtaking whilst in a single carriageway scenario. It reads to me that if a signal is necessary, the indicator should flash for a minimum of four seconds and cancelled prior to moving to the offside. So, it seems he is saying the signal only informs other road user/s (those that can see it) of the intention to overtake. From this, I glean he does not believe there is any benefit of maintaining an activated indicator for the base of the ‘triangle’ manoeuvre when moving to, and whilst on the offside pausing to look down the ‘hypotenuse’.

For those who don’t have the text to hand:

Apply the driving plan – mirror – hang back to plan and see best, inside left-hand curves and along the straight – signal, only if necessary, four seconds before – time the close – shoulder check – ‘think bike’ – change down – mirror, cancel signal – position out, before the power to pass.

When I read this, I thought to advocate procedurally cancelling the indicator at the aforementioned moment, is not encouraging the driver to use the indicator with intelligence and logic in any situation. Happy to be corrected with any consensus of opinion…

[GTR1400MAN]

For me cancelling it is as pointless as having it on in the first place.

In the quoted text it is being used as "I'm thinking about overtaking "

It's rare that a signal is of benefit to anyone on a single carriageway overtake, other than if you have a pushed vehicle behind.

[Edmund Kean]

But how can we deem whether an indicator is of ‘benefit’? Surely we can’t can we? Aren’t we supposed to provide information (TUG)? Also, do you not think there could be a courtesy and politeness to giving an indicator in this sort of situation?

[Horse]

But how can we deem whether an indicator is of ‘benefit’?

Can't remember who / where, but someone, somewhere ...

Along the lines of 'if there is anyone present who might benefit, or someone could appear who might'

eg Turning off, major to minor. No traffic ahead, behind, oncoming. No-one waiting to emerge. But, could another vehicle arrive (from any direction), or a pedestrian, while you're manoeuvring, who might benefit? If so, signal.




Re timing. I can remember this. A tame trafpol doing instructor assessments (motorcycle). Minimum three flashes before starting the overtake.

As above, leave it on. That said, how good are the driver ahead's rear obs? First they know may be as you're alongside. But at least give them the opportunity

[crr003]

...
When I read this, I thought to advocate procedurally cancelling the indicator at the aforementioned moment, is not encouraging the driver to use the indicator with intelligence and logic in any situation. Happy to be corrected with any consensus of opinion…

I remember older advanced types saying you indicate to tell someone what you're going to do, not what you're doing. I can imagine this fits with the quote.
It's a bit like watching people lane change on a motorway. If I can see them move towards the lane line and over it, why bother with a signal.

[dvenman]

From the text you quote - "signal, only if necessary, four seconds before".

For most overtakes I do, if I indicate anywhere throughout the manoeuvre it's either because there's someone behind me who needs to know my intentions to overtake or it will give the oncomer some reassurance I'm moving back nearside. Other than that, it's one other thing to do and I don't normally bother otherwise.

[waremark]

My recollection of drives with JL is that the signal before an overtake was to tell drivers behind that you are looking for the overtake- so they are less likely to try to overtake you.

[jont-]

These days I'm wondering where you get long enough straights and little enough traffic to have 4 seconds to indicate before you move offside to look to see if it might be on...

Another advanced driving coach pointed out to me that an overtake only takes 4-5 seconds. If you've got that long to be thinking about a signal, why haven't you just got it done?

[Gareth]

It reads to me that if a signal is necessary, the indicator should flash for a minimum of four seconds and cancelled prior to moving to the offside.

In what circumstances do you think a signal is necessary?

If you think it is necessary, how long does it take another road user to see it, understand what you are intending, and have considered how it affects them?

[Gareth]

From my point of view, the only time a signal might be necessary in the context of a single carriageway overtake is if a following vehicle is more eager than you to press on.