Off-siding

[hir]

All else being equal, if you are not inconveniencing anyone and you can see further ahead on a DC then why shouldn't (or indeed wouldn't) you be in L2 (or more)?

Because of Highway code, one of several mentions is 137 "On a two-lane dual carriageway you should stay in the left-hand lane. Use the right-hand lane for overtaking or turning right. After overtaking, move back to the left-hand lane when it is safe to do so."

I know that's not a "MUST" but it's a widely held public perception and it has a basis in HC. I'm all in favour of using dual carriageway lanes that way and do so when I think fit, but I'm generally aware of that perception, which sometimes makes me more reluctant. Last thing I want is for other traffic to "react" if they think I'm disregarding HC...

I refer the honourable gentleman to my previous post:

"What is the safest and most appropriate position for me to occupy on the road?"

Just because HC says to be in the left lane, that does not automatically mean that it is either the safest or most appropriate for the circumstances at the time.

As always, the answer begins with the words, "It depends..."

Exactly this, what SB says.

IAM examiners will suggest being in lane 2 of a dual carriageway on the approach to a left hand curve if it extends the view and doesn’t inconvenience or confuse other road users. I know of a number of d/c lay-bys, dangerously positioned on or just after a left hand curve, where lane 2 is by far the safest option on approach.

I recently had an IAM associate who got a F1RST. One of the techniques he used on test was to use lane 2 on a dual carriageway whenever the road ahead curved to the left, always observing the provisos regarding other road users noted above.

With regard to the Highway Code it’s worth remembering that it’s not an advanced driving manual.

[waremark]

I have a car with Adaptive Cruise Control. There are numerous occasions when I would prefer a regular cruise control including those mentioned, but on the other hand there are also many situations where it helps. It is easy to turn the adaptive function off using a control on the steering wheel but I generally leave it on. Needless, I hope, to say, in a situation where it would slow me down earlier than I think appropriate I disengage it.

[Another Bill]

I accept all that’s been said in favour of using lane 2/3 of a DC for a better view on DCs and I’ve been doing so since long before my IAM membership. But I do find myself less inclined these days if there’s any other traffic at all behind me, even it’s if a long way back. Here’s a few not uncommon examples where awareness of other traffic influences my decision to use (or not) lane 2/3 of a DC on left bends.

1. I’m being followed by a driver who subscribes to the popular technique of “doing whatever the car in front does”. The follower is a good distance back and been there for ages, so I’m safe to move out without inconveniencing them. They then pull out too (because I did) and maybe even accelerate a little as they are now in what they, personally, call the “fast lane”. This raises the possibility that he/she actually wants to overtake, so I must move back again. They move back too, because I did. But having lost my view, I may also slow down a little which confuses the follower no end.

2. As above but the same following driver, instead of following me to lane 2, simply starts to absent minededly accelerate into the vacant space in lane 1. That’s terrible driving, but terrible driving is not uncommon. Again I have to consider the possibility that a genuine overtake may be intended, and so I need to plan a return to lane 1, and possibly slow a little, before they get close.

3. Even after moving over a lane I’m still not happy with the view, or maybe the extended view has revealed an actual hazard so I slow down a little too. This pretty much guarantees that following traffic in lane 1, assuming they’re happier with the restricted view than I am, will start to catch up with me, necessitating a move back to lane 1.

All of the above scenarios slightly destabilises a traffic flow that was previously stable. Following drivers may even feel resentful, since the highway code tells them (if not us) that I should never have left lane 1.

[Horse]

... other traffic at all behind me, even it’s if a long way back.

2. As above but the same following driver, instead of following me to lane 2, simply starts to absent minededly accelerate into the vacant space in lane 1.

How close/far behind?

And what are they driving?

[exportmanuk]

Understand what "Another Bill" says. Most drivers appear to be in "Sheep mode" follow the flock. They follow the vehicle in front with no other thought. Especially true on Motorways when they sit in lane 2 or 3(if there are 4 lanes) and simply stay there if the vehicle in front is doing 60 they do 60 if a gap opens up may be because the vehicle has changed lane they go as fast as they can until they catch up on the next vehicle in front where they once again sit on its tail, they only move from this strategy to exit the road usually going over the solid white line. These are the type of driver that owning a Tesla ( If /when it works as people expect)would be ideal.

[jont-]

These are the type of driver that shouldn't have a driving license

/efa.

The problem is not a lack of technology. The problem is a societal unwillingess to take driving licenses away from people not prepared to put in the minimum requisite effort to be worthy of holding one. And I'd include relying on unproved beta testing pseudo-autonomous stuff as being "not prepared to put in the minimum effort"

[Another Bill]

How close/far behind?

And what are they driving?

How close?

I suppose I’m basing it on the probability of having to move back over to lane 1 before the road straightens again. If it’s a road I know well and I know the bend is short I might worry less about it, as it’s easy to be confident I won’t obstruct an imminent overtaker. Or if I’ve just overtaken a few vehicles and the gap is widening, I may not worry too much. If it looks a bit busier in the mirror with everybody anxious to get where they’re going, then I might prefer a bigger gap even if there’s no reason to expect any immediate overtakes.

But folks… I’m not trying to persuade anybody that my way is always right, or even ever right. I followed these forums for a long time before joining, so I’m well aware that most/all of you are far better qualified than myself to field advice and opinions. I’m simply enjoying the debate, and trying to learn in the process.

[exportmanuk]

These are the type of driver that shouldn't have a driving license

The problem is not a lack of technology. The problem is a societal unwillingess to take driving licenses away from people not prepared to put in the minimum requisite effort to be worthy of holding one. And I'd include relying on unproved beta testing pseudo-autonomous stuff as being "not prepared to put in the minimum effort"

I don't believe I actually said that but I would not disagree

[Horse]

How close/far behind?

And what are they driving?

How close?

I suppose I’m basing it on the probability of having to move back over to lane 1 before the road straightens again. If it’s a road I know well and I know the bend is short I might worry less about it, as it’s easy to be confident I won’t obstruct an imminent overtaker. Or if I’ve just overtaken a few vehicles and the gap is

I’m simply enjoying the debate, and trying to learn in the process.

No criticism intended, just 'long way' and 'undertaking' seemed contradictory unless you're out there a long time or they're closing quickly, hence the question.

To put numbers on it:

If you're doing 70mph and the car is about 4 seconds (ie a 'long way'?) back, that's 130+ yards or so.

So - again, just to illustrate it - unless the other driver is doing well over 100, perhaps nearer 120, you should have plenty of time to move out, round the corner, move back.

If someone was closing - steady speed - on me like that, I'd stay where I was.

But if they were matching speed then accelerated to close in a few seconds, that's why I asked 'what car?'.

[hir]

I accept all that’s been said in favour of using lane 2/3 of a DC for a better view on DCs and I’ve been doing so since long before my IAM membership. But I do find myself less inclined these days if there’s any other traffic at all behind me, even it’s if a long way back. Here’s a few not uncommon examples where awareness of other traffic influences my decision to use (or not) lane 2/3 of a DC on left bends.

1. I’m being followed by a driver who subscribes to the popular technique of “doing whatever the car in front does”. The follower is a good distance back and been there for ages, so I’m safe to move out without inconveniencing them. They then pull out too (because I did) and maybe even accelerate a little as they are now in what they, personally, call the “fast lane”. This raises the possibility that he/she actually wants to overtake, so I must move back again. They move back too, because I did. But having lost my view, I may also slow down a little which confuses the follower no end.

2. As above but the same following driver, instead of following me to lane 2, simply starts to absent minededly accelerate into the vacant space in lane 1. That’s terrible driving, but terrible driving is not uncommon. Again I have to consider the possibility that a genuine overtake may be intended, and so I need to plan a return to lane 1, and possibly slow a little, before they get close.

3. Even after moving over a lane I’m still not happy with the view, or maybe the extended view has revealed an actual hazard so I slow down a little too. This pretty much guarantees that following traffic in lane 1, assuming they’re happier with the restricted view than I am, will start to catch up with me, necessitating a move back to lane 1.

All of the above scenarios slightly destabilises a traffic flow that was previously stable. Following drivers may even feel resentful, since the highway code tells them (if not us) that I should never have left lane 1.

May I venture to suggest that you might be over-thinking this?

For example, in scenario 1) you state “this raises the possibility that he/she wants to overtake, so I must move back again”. I would not move back to lane 1 based on the possibility that the following driver wants to overtake. I would wait until there was a fairly clear indication of their intention to overtake before moving to lane 1 if by doing so I would be losing the extended view. The indication that I would be looking for would usually be a fairly rapid closing speed from which I could judge their intention and the inconvenience I would be causing by not moving back to lane 1.