Comments from ADI...

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
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jcochrane
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Re: Comments from ADI...

Postby jcochrane » Wed Aug 24, 2022 10:06 pm

akirk wrote:However, his point was that if you are needing the overtake time and some contingency then an additional second would often put the overtake out of contention.
That could be seen as considerably more risky!


Not sure I follow. "if needing more time puts the overtake out of contention' we would not attempt the overtake. Why is that considerably more risky? It would only be more risky if we were foolish enough to try to overtake.

I get the point that we might miss some overtakes but is that really that important?
Last edited by jcochrane on Wed Aug 24, 2022 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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akirk
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Re: Comments from ADI...

Postby akirk » Wed Aug 24, 2022 10:48 pm

I think the point is not that we might choose not to take the overtake, but that we take it with an additional time penalty by being further back…

Clearly, not taking the overtake is low risk, but equally adding time to an overtake increases risk…

My main point though before we are dragged down a rabbit hole around exact wording and grammar, is that the advice from one of the top coaches in the country was to reduce the gap when looking for an overtake - and this was important enough that my not reducing the gap was criticised… I would argue that this particular coach is a far better driver and coach than the gentleman making the video being discussed - so, for me, I will take his advice not the generic / not thought through advice of always sticking at 2 seconds as though it is somehow a magic number!

Jonquirk
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Re: Comments from ADI...

Postby Jonquirk » Thu Aug 25, 2022 6:03 am

IIRC the fastest reaction time is around 0.7 seconds, for most it is more. Two seconds probably covers most drivers.

As an associate rider I am often told by my observer that I need to close up more when an overtake might be about to become possible. I don’t necessarily have to overtake but the examiner will want to see that I am looking for opportunities to make progress. Striking the right balance is proving quite tricky, especially as I haven’t really got used to the rate at which even my 310 can accelerate when prodded.

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Strangely Brown
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Re: Comments from ADI...

Postby Strangely Brown » Thu Aug 25, 2022 6:04 am

jcochrane wrote:I get the point that we might miss some overtakes but is that really that important?


That depends on whether you want the pace of your drive to be dictated by the driver in front.

Personally, I prefer a greater level of self-determination - as much as that is still possible these days - so I will seek to take opportunities when they present themselves, and that means being in the right position, right gear, mirror work done and ready to go when they do. If you are still in a relaxed following position 2 seconds or more behind then the opportunity will likely be missed. Far too often do I see people wasting a third or more of their overtaking distance because they were out of touch with the target car.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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jont-
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Re: Comments from ADI...

Postby jont- » Thu Aug 25, 2022 6:46 am

jcochrane wrote:
waremark wrote:....where there is some benefit in progress to be achieved....'.


I remember some years back driving with a certain Scottish gentleman Jim B, known to many here. Having followed a car for quite some time an opportunity came to overtake. Pleased with myself for executing a perfect overtake only to get an "Och no" from Jim. He pointed out that we would soon be entering a village where I would slow to 30mph and probably hold up the car I'd just overtaken who would want to proceeds in excess of the speed limit. He said I should have waited until exiting the village so I could be assured of making rapid progress after the overtake.

I used to be of that opinion. These days it depends, and particularly if I know the opportunities beyond the village are limited.

Besides, shouldn't it be considered public service now making sure the other driver is slowed down to the speed limit through the village? :lol:

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Re: Comments from ADI...

Postby hir » Thu Aug 25, 2022 1:54 pm

jcochrane wrote:
waremark wrote:....where there is some benefit in progress to be achieved....'.


I remember some years back driving with a certain Scottish gentleman Jim B, known to many here. Having followed a car for quite some time an opportunity came to overtake. Pleased with myself for executing a perfect overtake only to get an "Och no" from Jim. He pointed out that we would soon be entering a village where I would slow to 30mph and probably hold up the car I'd just overtaken who would want to proceeds in excess of the speed limit. He said I should have waited until exiting the village so I could be assured of making rapid progress after the overtake.


Many years ago I was given the exact same advice by an English man, John L.

His advice was to always think twice about overtaking on the approach to a village, within (say) a third of a mile of the change of speed limit. The reason being that you are only going to p*** o** the overtaken driver who simply won’t be able to understand why you overtook him and then pootled along in front of him at 30mph! The outcome being that he sits on your bumper getting more and more irate and then tries to overtake you in the 30 limit. Exactly as Jim B advised.

Methinks that Jim B and John L must have discussed this very topic between themselves.

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Comments from ADI...

Postby GTR1400MAN » Thu Aug 25, 2022 2:18 pm

If the vehicle being overtake in a "40 everywhere" driver, then the education service is well founded. :D :o

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I do discuss with my associates if such an action on a motorcycle could bring them into conflict. I don't say "don't do it", just assess the driving attitude of the driver first.
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Horse
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Re: Comments from ADI...

Postby Horse » Thu Aug 25, 2022 2:22 pm

Strangely Brown wrote:
jcochrane wrote:I get the point that we might miss some overtakes but is that really that important?


That depends on whether you want the pace of your drive to be dictated by the driver in front.

Personally, I prefer a greater level of self-determination -


Slow down, stop. Allow the slower driver to get ahead. Wait for empty road and enjoy your own pace.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

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jont-
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Re: Comments from ADI...

Postby jont- » Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:29 pm

Horse wrote:
Strangely Brown wrote:
jcochrane wrote:I get the point that we might miss some overtakes but is that really that important?


That depends on whether you want the pace of your drive to be dictated by the driver in front.

Personally, I prefer a greater level of self-determination -


Slow down, stop. Allow the slower driver to get ahead. Wait for empty road and enjoy your own pace.

And when the next vehicle appears from behind and the one in front hasn't gone very much further?

Why the antipathy towards overtaking? We should be educating these ditherers that it's fine to drive slowly, but it should be expected you then get overtaken. Although if you're driving so slowly you'd fail an L-test, perhaps you shouldn't be driving at all.

I wish the UK had more of the "use turnouts to let faster vehicles past" that you find so often in the US.

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Horse
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Re: Comments from ADI...

Postby Horse » Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:43 pm

jont- wrote:
Horse wrote:
Strangely Brown wrote:
jcochrane wrote:I get the point that we might miss some overtakes but is that really that important?


That depends on whether you want the pace of your drive to be dictated by the driver in front.

Personally, I prefer a greater level of self-determination -


Slow down, stop. Allow the slower driver to get ahead. Wait for empty road and enjoy your own pace.

And when the next vehicle appears from behind and the one in front hasn't gone very much further?

Why the antipathy towards overtaking? We should be educating these ditherers that it's fine to drive slowly,.


I really hope there's a 'tongue in cheek' smiley missing there.

Otherwise you're going all Mr Angry while driving and that's not good for you or anyone nearby :o :lol:

I'm not fussed either way if you want to overtake, just don't blame someone else :roll: After all, if they weren't travelling slower, you wouldn't have an opportunity to demonstrate your skills :drool: :D


PS if you're daft enough to wait for another vehicle to pass by, then you weren't really thinking about it, were you.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.


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