Reg Local - How to pass an Advanced Driving Test

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
Gareth
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Re: Reg Local - How to pass an Advanced Driving Test

Postby Gareth » Tue May 25, 2021 2:08 pm

GTR1400MAN wrote:I think the reason people struggle with System in an automatic/DCT is they lack any finesse on the accelerator. They cover this up in a manual with the use of the clutch.

I'm struggling to work out exactly what you're saying here.

I think you're talking about moving from a manual to an auto 'box but I reckon many of the problems people have with a manual is that they often change up too readily, moving from a flexible gear to one that is more akin to a cruising gear or overdrive, relative to the speed they're doing. Then, when they lift off, there is no or minimal retardation.

The same thing happens with many economy auto 'boxes, when the driver lifts off slightly the 'box changes to a gear that has absolutely no flexibility. Some sports modes are less ready to do this, and others if the driver lifts off abruptly, but too many tend to autonomously revert to the economy behaviour at the drop of a hat.
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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Reg Local - How to pass an Advanced Driving Test

Postby GTR1400MAN » Tue May 25, 2021 2:18 pm

Gareth wrote:
GTR1400MAN wrote:I think the reason people struggle with System in an automatic/DCT is they lack any finesse on the accelerator. They cover this up in a manual with the use of the clutch.

I'm struggling to work out exactly what you're saying here.

I meant that hen people move from a manual to an auto they struggle to control the car because they are usually on the gas o on the brake. So for example at a left turn rather than be in the correct gear they'll feather/slip the clutch as they execute the turn. They can't do that in an auto.
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

Gareth
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Re: Reg Local - How to pass an Advanced Driving Test

Postby Gareth » Tue May 25, 2021 4:16 pm

GTR1400MAN wrote:I meant that hen people move from a manual to an auto they struggle to control the car because they are usually on the gas o on the brake. So for example at a left turn rather than be in the correct gear they'll feather/slip the clutch as they execute the turn. They can't do that in an auto.

You mentioned this in relation to acceleration sense, which explains my confusion. I agree that what you've observed happens quite frequently but I don't think acceleration sense comes into it.

First there is the factor I mentioned before, that drivers typically select too high a gear. That leads into approach speed being too high. Both of these result in the awkwardness of needing to get the clutch down quite early, and this is generally much worse if the car has a diesel engine.

Too much speed results in too little time to make the gear change and, anyway, the too high a gear means it would often need to be a block change down to second or first which no-one ever learns how to do because it needs the intermediate step of synchronising engine speed to the selected gear which, if the driver can do it, takes even more time.

All this leads to a frentic fumble of clutch down through the turning.

It's just as easy to have too high an approach speed with an auto 'box, and just as difficult to slap the driver hard enough to get them to slow down appropriately.

Regarding the video, I particularly liked the demonstration of timing with an auto and the explicit comment that even an auto needs time between completing the braking and starting to accelerate.
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Horse
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Re: Reg Local - How to pass an Advanced Driving Test

Postby Horse » Tue May 25, 2021 4:31 pm

Gareth wrote:
the explicit comment that even an auto needs time between completing the braking and starting to accelerate.


I've often thought that must be the case, but not seen it mentioned anywhere before (it probably is, somewhere).

Does it apply for all types, including Daf Variomatic, etc.?


There's a parallel with motorcycling too. When getting back on the power, a bike responds far quicker, so a shorter distance is needed to get a bike balanced / settled.

It took me ages to allow for that when I became a regular driver. Help by your & John's 'hinting' advice. Then a year to get that ingrained! :)
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

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jont-
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Re: Reg Local - How to pass an Advanced Driving Test

Postby jont- » Tue May 25, 2021 4:45 pm

Gareth wrote:Regarding the video, I particularly liked the demonstration of timing with an auto and the explicit comment that even an auto needs time between completing the braking and starting to accelerate.

/hmmm, left foot brakes, gets on gas, lifts off brake. Nope, I don't see any time needed :lol:

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Reg Local - How to pass an Advanced Driving Test

Postby GTR1400MAN » Tue May 25, 2021 5:19 pm

Gareth wrote:
GTR1400MAN wrote:I meant that hen people move from a manual to an auto they struggle to control the car because they are usually on the gas o on the brake. So for example at a left turn rather than be in the correct gear they'll feather/slip the clutch as they execute the turn. They can't do that in an auto.

You mentioned this in relation to acceleration sense, which explains my confusion. I agree that what you've observed happens quite frequently but I don't think acceleration sense comes into it.

Sorry. It all made sense in my head. :) I just see the two things being symptomatic of clumping great right foot with no finesse.
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Reg Local - How to pass an Advanced Driving Test

Postby GTR1400MAN » Tue May 25, 2021 5:21 pm

jont- wrote:/hmmm, left foot brakes, gets on gas, lifts off brake. Nope, I don't see any time needed :lol:

Spanner symbol appears on the dash and limp home mode engaged. :o
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

Triquet
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Re: Reg Local - How to pass an Advanced Driving Test

Postby Triquet » Tue May 25, 2021 5:38 pm

:gear: :gear: Now from driving days you may remember(?) I have two Saab 9-5's one a manual (the red one) and one an auto (the grey estate). They look exactly the same inside. I just get in and drive. For the life of me I can't really tell the difference as to what I do, except I probably wiggle the stick about a bit more with the manual. Maybe it's time to take the grey one out for a good run just using the flappy paddles and see what happens ....

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jcochrane
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Re: Reg Local - How to pass an Advanced Driving Test

Postby jcochrane » Tue May 25, 2021 6:53 pm

With automatics I think of them as a manual car without the clutch. So the system of car control still applies. One of the skills is to be aware at what rpm the auto will select a gear and judging if the auto box will select the desired gear for the hazard. If the desired gear is not going to be automatically selected then manual selection is required. I do like to complete braking at the same point I would in a manual, at the point when I would make the gear change, as if to separate braking/gear change. As Reg mentions in the video this does help to prepare the car to then balance it through the bend. When driving an auto, to help me with timing the completion of braking, I run through my head "Off the brake, take the gear, now steer." Whether I need to physically take a gear depends on whether the auto box has selected the gear I want.

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Horse
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Re: Reg Local - How to pass an Advanced Driving Test

Postby Horse » Tue May 25, 2021 7:03 pm

jcochrane wrote:With automatics I think of them as a manual car without the clutch. So the system of car control still applies ...


Good stuff.

Was it on here that someone explained (and I'm not attempting a technical explanation) the police method for forcing the auto box to kick down, for improved throttle control through bends?

Something like:
Brake
Auto box selects gear
Stomp on throttle to force kickdown
Keep enough throttle on to prevent upshift

In F-i-L's Focus auto, I used to toggle the 'overdrive' button to get a lower gear for bends.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.


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