Reg Local - How to pass an Advanced Driving Test

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
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RiK
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Re: Reg Local - How to pass an Advanced Driving Test

Postby RiK » Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:36 pm

Next instalment - Overtaking:

Richard Olpin: Bristol IAM: Training Officer, IAM: Masters (Dist), IMI National Observer, LOA. Gloucestershire Constabulary SC6240.

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Reg Local - How to pass an Advanced Driving Test

Postby GTR1400MAN » Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:13 pm

That slow blue M2 does a great job of keep getting past him. :lol:

I didn't agree with his

once I commit in the oncoming lane, even when behind the vehicle, it is over - or words to that effect.

You always have the option to abort if the situation changes.
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

Gareth
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Re: Reg Local - How to pass an Advanced Driving Test

Postby Gareth » Fri Oct 01, 2021 11:05 am

GTR1400MAN wrote:You always have the option to abort if the situation changes.

When I read comments like this I reach for the Archive search function in order to quote 7db, who said:
I think the definition of "commitment" is poorly understood, and contains the key to understanding the strength of the triangle overtake.

Definition: You are committed to the overtake at the point where - should the vehicle in front apply maximum braking - you are unable to stop behind it.


References:
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Reg Local - How to pass an Advanced Driving Test

Postby GTR1400MAN » Fri Oct 01, 2021 3:01 pm

Some interesting reading.

Here I've committed (decided to go) to overtake the lorry from my offside position well behind it but the information changes and I abort. That's what I meant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvejJ_Ewr0w&t=305s
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

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dvenman
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Re: Reg Local - How to pass an Advanced Driving Test

Postby dvenman » Fri Oct 01, 2021 3:15 pm

GTR1400MAN wrote:Here I've committed (decided to go) to overtake the lorry from my offside position well behind it but the information changes and I abort. That's what I meant.


I don't think you'd committed then - you were still hanging back and decided not to go for it when you saw the sign.

For me, committal is the moment I start the process of passing knowing I'll be able to complete safely.

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Re: Reg Local - How to pass an Advanced Driving Test

Postby Gareth » Fri Oct 01, 2021 3:21 pm

The great educator, 7db, has some words about that, as well ;-) From the first referenced thread:
I think of the two things that we are talking about, one is "becoming committed" and the other is "deciding to become committed". Simply because you might successfully abort and pull back in behind the target many times, does not mean that you have full control of whether that is possible every time. You only have full control if you are able to stop in the distance which you can see to be clear. If you can't see that the distance offside past the target vehicle is clear then you can't use it to stop in. Once you can see that it is clear, then you can safely commit to it.

Furthermore, I think that "becoming committed" before "deciding to become committed" is the wrong way round to do it.
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Reg Local - How to pass an Advanced Driving Test

Postby GTR1400MAN » Fri Oct 01, 2021 3:36 pm

dvenman wrote:I don't think you'd committed then - you were still hanging back and decided not to go for it when you saw the sign.

For me, committal is the moment I start the process of passing knowing I'll be able to complete safely.

I was accelerating, which for me is committal, but as we can see by Gareth's 7db archive quote, committal can be interpreted different ways. I've always used the point where I fire the gun from the offside position.
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

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Strangely Brown
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Re: Reg Local - How to pass an Advanced Driving Test

Postby Strangely Brown » Fri Oct 01, 2021 5:27 pm

AIUI, committed means that you are bound to a particular course of action and that you cannot back out[*]. If you are able to back out then you are not, by definition, committed. I am not sure that it can be put any more simply than that.

Mike, the firing a gun analogy undermines your argument. There is no backing out of pulling a trigger. :)

[*] FTAOD, I do not consider starting the overtake and everyone having to come to a rapid stop to be a valid definition of "backing out". That's just life-preservation.

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Reg Local - How to pass an Advanced Driving Test

Postby GTR1400MAN » Fri Oct 01, 2021 6:38 pm

Strangely Brown wrote:Mike, the firing a gun analogy undermines your argument. There is no backing out of pulling a trigger. :)

Fair comment :) So, for me committing to the overtake is when I add significant acceleration to pass the target.

I just tell my associates not to fire the gun when following behind the target vehicle (on the left of the road).
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

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Horse
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Re: Reg Local - How to pass an Advanced Driving Test

Postby Horse » Sat Oct 02, 2021 5:44 am

"Don't fire when pointing at the target"?

Hmmm analogy needs work ;)
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.


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