Stopping an auto smoothly

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
janetwise-griggs
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Re: Stopping an auto smoothly

Postby janetwise-griggs » Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:27 pm

Ive just been out in my BMW which is automatic. When I stop at lights or behind someone I use the same brake pedal pressure for slowing down and at the moment of ceasing to move because nothing more is needed to stop it creeping forward. This is something you just have to work out for your car. My car has upgraded brakes so you don't need much pressure to make the car stop completely. if you are not used to driving an automatic you have to get used to having your right foot either on the brake pedal or on the gas and very occasionally easing off the gas so not pressing either for example slowing down a bit but not having to use the brakes yet. When I first got an automatic 10 years ago it took me 2 weeks to learn how to drive it properly. My husband who rarely drives my car jerks the car all the time. Which is really annoying. I never worry about the clutch or what the gearbox is doing I concentrate on speed ie whether I need to speed up or slow down. I've also found that automatic cars drive differently compared to a manual car which must be to do with how the computer controls the engine and gear box. If you've got flappy paddles get used to the car and then start using these. It's easier to go in and out of sport mode rather than using the flappy paddles. I think what I mean is don't expect it to be the same as the equivalent manual car and you have to have two driving modes, automatic and manual.

Gareth
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Re: Stopping an auto smoothly

Postby Gareth » Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:02 pm

Searching the old forum is sometimes useful. One hint relayed by 7db from Susie is to manually select a higher gear, not sure how that makes sense but perhaps the relaying source could be consulted. I did discover that this issue has mildly vexed a certain waremark for a very long time ...
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...

janetwise-griggs
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Re: Stopping an auto smoothly

Postby janetwise-griggs » Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:21 pm

Not sure how manually selecting a higher gear would help in relation to stopping.

janetwise-griggs
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Re: Stopping an auto smoothly

Postby janetwise-griggs » Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:26 pm

JonT you don't have to worry about riding the clutch. It doesn't harm the gearbox or wear it out quicker if you sit with it in drive and with your foot on the brake. It's meant to operate in that way. I used to worry about it but I only use neutral if I expect to be stopped for ages eg if there a lorry turning around in the road or accident or something.

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jcochrane
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Re: Stopping an auto smoothly

Postby jcochrane » Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:21 pm

Hi Jon. Unless stop start kicks in just before you stop there will be some jerk albeit almost undetectable and most passengers (but not by some on here) will not notice it. VW tell me this is due to how the DSG gearbox disengages the drive when the foot brake is engaged and brings the car to a complete stop and thus avoiding clutch slipping which would result in rapid clutch wear. Of course it can be greatly reduced by feathering off the brake. But I know this is what you will be doing anyway. I drove round the Isle of Skye with Roger Oakes and he managed to minimise this jerk more than any driver I’ve been with. When I asked how he achieved this there was no magic formula just great sensitivity in brake control.

PS I know you know this Jon but for others that may not...Something I found from experience and confirmed after chatting with VW is that auto hold applies the brakes to all four wheels with a pressure equal to the pressure on the foot brake before it is released. So if feathering off the brake it is wise to press harder on the brake, once stopped, before releasing it. The electric parking brake only acts on the rear wheels with a set pressure and unlike auto hold turns off the brake lights.

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jont-
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Re: Stopping an auto smoothly

Postby jont- » Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:41 pm

janetwise-griggs wrote:JonT you don't have to worry about riding the clutch. It doesn't harm the gearbox or wear it out quicker if you sit with it in drive and with your foot on the brake. It's meant to operate in that way. I used to worry about it but I only use neutral if I expect to be stopped for ages eg if there a lorry turning around in the road or accident or something.

Agreed, if you're stationary there is no wear. But if you're moving at a speed that is below idle in 1st (ie the speed you'd do with feet off - using a small amount of brake), then on a DSG you are causing additional wear to the clutch pack. In a traditional torque converted auto there is no additional wear.

As for selecting a higher gear - at least in the auto box in my car, in normal or manual modes, it only changes down at the last possible second anyway, but will not let you choose an excessively high gear. In sport/auto it does tend to change down earlier.

I can see that in an older torque converted auto that might be possible to hold a higher gear and effective at hiding the effect I notice.

@John, the challenge with feathering off the brake is that the car thinks you want to go again. Pretty much everywhere around here is sufficiently flat that in a manual car you don't need the handbrake to hold the car still so you really can taper off nice and gently. That amount of taper in the auto just isn't possible (IME, in my car, YMMV)

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jcochrane
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Re: Stopping an auto smoothly

Postby jcochrane » Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:51 pm

Agree with all you say Jon. With DSG the advice in stop start traffic is to wait until there is a sufficient gap between you and the car in front to allow for the clutch to fully engage when you start off.

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Horse
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Re: Stopping an auto smoothly

Postby Horse » Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:38 pm

janetwise-griggs wrote: I only use neutral if I expect to be stopped for ages eg if there a lorry turning around in the road or accident or something.


Or dazzle the driver behind with your high-level brake light? ;)
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

WhoseGeneration
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Re: Stopping an auto smoothly

Postby WhoseGeneration » Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:59 pm

Horse wrote:
janetwise-griggs wrote: I only use neutral if I expect to be stopped for ages eg if there a lorry turning around in the road or accident or something.


Or dazzle the driver behind with your high-level brake light? ;)

Seems to be endemic nowadays, including the majority of Police vehicles I see stopped at traffic lights.

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Stopping an auto smoothly

Postby GTR1400MAN » Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:11 pm

Ahh, smooth stopping in a DSG with creep function. :)

:geek: Firstly, lets be clear to everyone that this is not the same as driving an auto (slush box). A DCT is just the same as a conventional car, just that the clutch action is automated (yes, a DCT has two clutches and two stacks of gears, but it is still a FRICTION clutch).

Some have wet clutches, some like my RenaultSport have dry.

The hardest thing I had to learn when I first got my car was how to come to a smooth stop and how to creep up to the wall of the house! :o

It really is about ultra-feathering the brake pedal. You can feather as you are coming to a stop and just as the wheels stop turning you need to re-apply the pedal firmly to prevent further creep. In the final stages the car is slipping the clutch for you.

I don't know about other makes/models but my creep function doesn't stop for several seconds if you apply the handbrake! :o :evil:

So if I come to a stop at red lights, or a junction where I'll be stationary for a while, I apply the handbrake while still pressing the brake firmly, and then put it into neutral and release the brake pedal.

PS. I had to explain all this when I took my IAM course as I was being told about 3 stage braking (you can't come fully off the pedal as you stop). It's 4 stage now ;)
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube


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