Any group back to observing in cars?

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
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Horse
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Re: Any group back to observing in cars?

Postby Horse » Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:52 pm

I've been qualified for First Aid at Work since about 1984. Trust me, there have been massive changes there in hygiene advice such as gloves and face shields, also with cleaning of Resusci Annies.
Last edited by Horse on Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

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Horse
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Re: Any group back to observing in cars?

Postby Horse » Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:15 pm

Strangely Brown wrote:
Horse wrote:Most basic masks (as I understand it) are more to restrict spread than particularly to prevent infection (ie the wearer contracting it) unless you go for fairly serious kit.


The answer is, as always, "It depends..."

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/covid-19-mask-efficacy-chart/


Did you actually read it?

What's False
The percentages displayed in this chart cannot be accurate because no scientific consensus exists on the efficacy of homemade masks


More info:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co ... s-52613399

AFAIK the no masks advice was simply pragmatic because stocks didn't exist so had to be maintenance for essential users.


As far as writing risk assessments goes, I might be considered to be part of that industry. If you want details then PM me an email address, I won't post it here. Suffice to say that some of my work has involved arrangements where people (including me) might die if it went wrong, so I take them seriously.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

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Strangely Brown
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Location: Sussex

Re: Any group back to observing in cars?

Postby Strangely Brown » Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:21 pm

Horse wrote:
Strangely Brown wrote:
Horse wrote:Most basic masks (as I understand it) are more to restrict spread than particularly to prevent infection (ie the wearer contracting it) unless you go for fairly serious kit.


The answer is, as always, "It depends..."

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/covid-19-mask-efficacy-chart/


Did you actually read it?


Yes, I did, all the way to the bottom... and the point of posting it wasn't to decry the wearing of masks (or to blindly support them either) but because there is a lot more information in there, and especially in some of the linked documents about masks, to help people make up their own minds how they wish to behave (or not).

Example:
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/RespiratorInfographics.html

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Horse
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Re: Any group back to observing in cars?

Postby Horse » Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:42 pm

Strangely Brown wrote:
Horse wrote:
Strangely Brown wrote:
Horse wrote:Most basic masks (as I understand it) are more to restrict spread than particularly to prevent infection (ie the wearer contracting it) unless you go for fairly serious kit.


The answer is, as always, "It depends..."

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/covid-19-mask-efficacy-chart/


Did you actually read it?


Yes, I did, all the way to the bottom... and the point of posting it wasn't to decry the wearing of masks (or to blindly support them either) but because there is a lot more information in there, and especially in some of the linked documents about masks, to help people make up their own minds how they wish to behave (or not).

Example:
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/RespiratorInfographics.html


Ok, fair enough. The first thing I saw was the 'rubber stamp' of 'mostly false'.

So, given that you have now probably read more than I have, what masks are appropriate for two people who are in close proximity for an extended duration if there is an intention to substantially reduce the likelihood of cross infection?
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

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Strangely Brown
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Re: Any group back to observing in cars?

Postby Strangely Brown » Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:06 pm

Horse wrote:Ok, fair enough. The first thing I saw was the 'rubber stamp' of 'mostly false'.


Quite.

Horse wrote:So, given that you have now probably read more than I have, what masks are appropriate for two people who are in close proximity for an extended duration if there is an intention to substantially reduce the likelihood of cross infection?


Since you never got to the end, I'll quote the last few paragraphs.

Article wrote:For the first time, the Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has recommended that even seemingly healthy people wear masks over their mouths and noses when venturing out of their homes into places where it is difficult to maintain distance from other people. But there is still major debate over how much masks — particularly the homemade fabric masks that the CDC recommends for the public — can slow the spread of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19.

Researchers, writing in two new papers, attempt to tackle the efficacy of masks, one more rigorously than the other, and come to differing conclusions. One study examined the effect of masks on seasonal coronaviruses (which cause many cases of the common cold) and found that surgical masks are helpful at reducing how much virus a sick person spreads. The other looked particularly at SARS-CoV-2 and found no effect of either surgical or fabric masks on reducing virus spread, but only had four participants and used a crude measure of viral spread.

The bottom line, experts say, is that masks might help keep people with COVID-19 from unknowingly passing along the virus. But the evidence for the efficacy of surgical or homemade masks is limited, and masks aren’t the most important protection against the coronavirus.
Some experts have also expressed concern that widespread use of homemade cloth masks give people a false sense of security. The White House’s coronavirus response coordinator, Dr. Deborah Birx, said that social distancing is still the most important preventative measure a person can take during this pandemic:

“The most important thing is the social distancing and washing your hands,” she said. “And we don’t want people to get an artificial sense of protection because they’re behind a mask. Because if they’re touching things — remember your eyes are not in the mask — so if you’re touching things and then touching your eyes you’re exposing yourself in the same way.”
The World Health Organization (WHO) reiterated this point. WHO said in a statement that “masks alone cannot stop the pandemic:”

“Masks alone cannot stop the pandemic. Countries must continue to find, test, isolate and treat every case and trace every contact. Mask or no mask, there are proven things all of us can do to protect ourselves and others – keep your distance, clean your hands, cough or sneeze into your elbow, and avoid touching your face.”


To answer your question - Reduce likelihood or possibility? Define substantially? From what level, to what level?
You choose.

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Horse
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Re: Any group back to observing in cars?

Postby Horse » Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:22 pm

Strangely Brown wrote:
“The most important thing is the social distancing and washing your hands,”


To answer your question - Reduce likelihood or possibility? Define substantially? From what level, to what level?
You choose.


Nope, I don't have to because I won't be observing.

Also, I'm not qualified to make those sorts of decisions and give advice.

We're back to my earlier question, has a suitable and sufficient risk assessment been done? I would have thought that would have been done by head office as part of their duty of care to observers*. [Edit: and to both save every Group committee from commissioning their own and to provide a cohesive response, avoiding differences]

* Assuming they consider that they have that?
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.


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