Blues and Twos and Traffic Lights

[EasyShifter]

I know of drivers who have claimed on various forums that they have been successfully prosecuted for red light camera offences while assisting the police vehicle. They have given examples, with details, and confirmed they had to pay.

Unless someone trained in the law can confirm that you can't be prosecuted, I'll assume that I can, and act accordingly.

The way to change that is not to fall back on moral arguments; it needs a change in the law. Until then, there are many who will act the same, and I'm pleased to see that some on here feel the same, as its one club where I respect many of the members (waits for comedy Groucho Marx quote).

It's one of those examples, i think, where the law can't really be subtle enough to accommodate all the variables. What's the situation of the lights - is a pedestrian/cycle crossing included? How busy it it? Many pedestrians? Few? None? How good is visibility? What is the experience/skill/common sense level of the driver concerned?
I'm not much of a one for absolutes but here I think it has to be absolutely clear - you can't go through a red light (with the one exception of when they're override by a police office who is controlling traffic (this one wasn't and could neither see nor manage al the traffic in the area from where he was). Otherwise it's open to deliberate abuse, foolish interpretation and all points between.
Police drivers then have to devise ways of dealing with that - they'r the ones we should be able to expect to have the knowledge, skills and legal powers. For myself, I'll take the decisions I think are right and face the consequences - it's the price of living in an imperfect world.

[Strangely Brown]

Interesting that, in both examples, the police weren't using the bus lane. Perhaps they didn't want to have to contest tickets?

In the first example they would have been driving against the direction of the bus lane had they used it.

In the second example, I agree, the police car could have used the bus lane. What the picture doesn't show is that the bus lane ends less than 50m further on.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.8026718,-0.0547303,3a,75y,157.74h,82.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjPUwFU-mydLyIjg68WuLyg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[Strangely Brown]

Hands up those on the forum who would not do something they would know to be safe in order to get out of the way of an emergency vehicle.

It depends...

[GTR1400MAN]

Wasn't the 'two very firm horn notes' him trying to kill the horns? They are often wired to turn on/off with a standard horn press when in use, or so I'm told.

My reply at #3 seems to have been ignored. Did the sirens go off when he hooted you?

Here's a discussion on the confusion the horn being used as a toggle switch can cause to some.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=706101

In particular see the post a few down in the thread from TheHappyOtter

[akirk]

Hands up those on the forum who would not do something they would know to be safe in order to get out of the way of an emergency vehicle.

I am sure we all would...
however if your question had referred to something 'safe but not legal' then I suspect more, like me would raise a hand...
I appreciate that ideally we would move and help, but in a society which is so quick now to make every one guilty then, no I wouldn't go over a red light / into a hatched box etc. unless specifically directed to by a constable on foot - I would expect the person in the emergency vehicle to manage the situation...

it is also worth noting that their expectation should be that we would not move, and so they should manage the situation based on that - our moving, while admirable in intent could actually be detrimental in terms of not fitting in with their expectations... I have seen it where a car trying to move out of the way of an ambulance at lights moved right and actually blocked the path the ambulance chose to take - wasted a lot of time then unpicking that as other cars started to honk etc

Alasdair

[GTR1400MAN]

This is laughingly what is still known as the Ipswich ring road. It is the main approach to the Hospital, so has regular ambulances on blues and twos travelling along it. Since the Google car traveled along there the lines have been repainted and the cycle lanes are now marked by solid white lines.

What would you do with an ambulance trying to get through down the centre of the road, trying to part the waves of traffic?

Me? I check carefully and illegally enter the cycle lane. However when there is a car waiting to turn right I sit and wait behind, unlike 98% of the other traffic which passes on the left in the cycle lane. I'm not very popular

[martine]

..Since the Google car traveled along there the lines have been repainted and the cycle lanes are now marked by solid white lines.

Like this?

[Rolyan]

Other than internet anecdote and urban legend, I have no idea whether anyone has actually appeared in court for the very specific circumstances upon which you appear to be stuck. The more general point, as you well know, is that these situations should never arise in the first place and until such times as there is a statutory defence, whether for formal prosecution or local authority penalty, then many, including many here, will be unlikely to take the chance.

But you already know all that.

The OP has raised a specific point that is distinct from your general whinging about officialdom. You are taking the thread off-topic by having a general rant.

My general point is that one should not equate the OP's experience with moving out of the way of emergency vehicles generally.

I know that the esteemed Mr Brown can look after himself, but I don't see why you believe he is having a general rant or general whinging about officialdom.

He, like me and many others, has clear concerns about motorists being prosecuted and the councils general approach to the defence about assisting emergency vehicles. You do him a disservice by misrepresenting what he's said.

[Rolyan]

Hands up those on the forum who would not do something they would know to be safe in order to get out of the way of an emergency vehicle.

If you mean safe but illegal and open to prosecution, then I raise mine (in certain curcumstances).

[akirk]

This is laughingly what is still known as the Ipswich ring road. It is the main approach to the Hospital, so has regular ambulances on blues and twos travelling along it. Since the Google car traveled along there the lines have been repainted and the cycle lanes are now marked by solid white lines.

What would you do with an ambulance trying to get through down the centre of the road, trying to part the waves of traffic?

Me? I check carefully and illegally enter the cycle lane. However when there is a car waiting to turn right I sit and wait behind, unlike 98% of the other traffic which passes on the left in the cycle lane. I'm not very popular

Actually that is a good example:

- safe - yes I would do it
- safe / illegal / unlikely to be prosecuted - yes I would do it
- safe / illegal / likely to be prosecuted - no I wouldn't do it

Alasdair