Advanced Driving Hub

Giving useful feedback.

Perhaps it's confidence, but I find it hard to find flaw in other peoples driving as much of the time, they are better than me. We pull over for the debrief and I have nothing usefull to say to help them improve.

I feel like a parasite sometimes as i just take free (mostly helpful) advice and have none to give in return.

That said, im pretty good and finding things to fix when my co driver has had no advanced training, but they are less than happy to hear what I have to say!

Adamxck wrote:i just take free (mostly helpful) advice and have none to give in return.

In my experience so far, just having someone with the same interest in the passenger seat is a pretty big reward.

That said, I also have the same thoughts so something you could try is to discuss what it is about their drive that you like most. Most people enjoy a bit of flattery if it is specific. Perhaps that will open them up to discussing how they achieved it.

Remembering to drive the corner I'm on before starting to plan/execute the next one... especially when the first corner is quite open with no obvious limit point...

Slowing down enough for corners. My mentor summarised this for me one day as "trying to get away without slowing down, instead of slowing to the point where I could be on the power". Every now and then I get a little prick of conscience when I catch myself doing this, although I'm improving.

Adamxck wrote:Giving useful feedback.

Perhaps it's confidence, but I find it hard to find flaw in other peoples driving as much of the time, they are better than me. We pull over for the debrief and I have nothing usefull to say to help them improve.

We all go through that phase. Often it's useful to just say what you felt - that the drive was smooth, or fast, or slow, or boring. Whatever. The driver will know how they felt, and your view might be different. This difference of viewpoint will help them understand how what they're doing comes across to the passenger.

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote: you felt - that the drive was . . . boring .

Sadly/weirdly/ironically/etc, that's often the biggest compliment

There's a video on Youtube of the Met SEG bikes leading a VIP (actually, it was a cancelled run, so they used it for training, but don't tell anyone) through London. Nothing *really* happens, they just keep going. And, of course, that's the Whole Point TM!

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:

Adamxck wrote:Giving useful feedback.

Perhaps it's confidence, but I find it hard to find flaw in other peoples driving as much of the time, they are better than me. We pull over for the debrief and I have nothing usefull to say to help them improve.

We all go through that phase. Often it's useful to just say what you felt - that the drive was smooth, or fast, or slow, or boring. Whatever. The driver will know how they felt, and your view might be different. This difference of viewpoint will help them understand how what they're doing comes across to the passenger.

I find the most useful thing that drives feedback when you consider yourself in awe of someone else's driving is the question "What did you feel" - feeling the response of the car rather than anything un-usefully emotional.

Recognising the value of advice the first time it's given, and not having to wait until the 4th or more repetition [not necessarily from the same person] before it sinks in.

StressedDave wrote:I find the most useful thing that drives feedback when you consider yourself in awe of someone else's driving is the question "What did you feel" - feeling the response of the car rather than anything un-usefully emotional.

Even this approach dosen't seem to work for me. With many of the drivers that others speak in awe of I can feel uncomfortable with aspects of the drive. Usually entry speeds to hazards, balance and relying on the car to get them round a corner. The problem is, as they are highly respected, is it me that has it wrong? Probably, so who am I to comment. Strangely though I have been driven at race speed by a number of professional racing drivers on circuit and felt completely at home. I think it is in part a question of risk assessment levels where my assessment does not equate with that of the driver, but if they are a recognised better driver than me then am I the one at fault? Sometimes linked to this it is a matter of style and again who am I to suggest I don't like it, what purpose does it serve except raising a difference of opinion of likes and dislikes.

jcochrane wrote:

StressedDave wrote:I find the most useful thing that drives feedback when you consider yourself in awe of someone else's driving is the question "What did you feel" - feeling the response of the car rather than anything un-usefully emotional.

Even this approach dosen't seem to work for me. With many of the drivers that others speak in awe of I can feel uncomfortable with aspects of the drive. Usually entry speeds to hazards, balance and relying on the car to get them round a corner. The problem is, as they are highly respected, is it me that has it wrong? Probably, so who am I to comment. Strangely though I have been driven at race speed by a number of professional racing drivers on circuit and felt completely at home. I think it is in part a question of risk assessment levels where my assessment does not equate with that of the driver, but if they are a recognised better driver than me then am I the one at fault? Sometimes linked to this it is a matter of style and again who am I to suggest I don't like it, what purpose does it serve except raising a difference of opinion of likes and dislikes.

but the feelings of the passenger are a valid part of how you drive are they not - so therefore a valid discussion...
I have certainly had better drivers (of whom there are many!) drive me in a way I wouldn't have driven, but I trust that they can spot issues / plan / etc. better than I can, so there is always that irony that a technically better driver might cause discomfort... but if we factor in passenger enjoyment then a technically better driver doesn't necessarily meana better drive / driver... (if that makes sense!)

Alasdair