Cast your mind back ... ADIs ... Hazard Perception Test

The first test you do - organised by the government.
sussex2
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Re: Cast your mind back ... ADIs ... Hazard Perception Test

Postby sussex2 » Thu Dec 16, 2021 4:21 pm

Looking back I wonder, given some of the raw material, how on earth we taught changing gear/hill starts etc let alone some of the finer points.

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Horse
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Re: Cast your mind back ... ADIs ... Hazard Perception Test

Postby Horse » Thu Dec 16, 2021 5:50 pm

Something I've heard said is that the younger generation see motoring as occasional transport. Many of them are not particularly fussed about getting a car ASAP.

Although, I've also heard several of the locals regularly hammering up the nearby dual carriageway to MaccyD ... so there a few enthusiasts about I'm being polite.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

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Re: Cast your mind back ... ADIs ... Hazard Perception Test

Postby Gareth » Fri Dec 17, 2021 8:05 am

crr003 wrote:The secret is understanding the word "developing" hazard rather than "possible" hazard.

It's a bit late when the hazard is in play, which really does suggest the test isn't all that useful in a practical sense, for training drivers to be observant and to be able to assess and prepare for potential hazards.
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...

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jcochrane
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Re: Cast your mind back ... ADIs ... Hazard Perception Test

Postby jcochrane » Fri Dec 17, 2021 9:31 am

Gareth wrote:
crr003 wrote:The secret is understanding the word "developing" hazard rather than "possible" hazard.

It's a bit late when the hazard is in play, which really does suggest the test isn't all that useful in a practical sense, for training drivers to be observant and to be able to assess and prepare for potential hazards.

Completely agree Gareth. It puts into question as to who is responsible for the decision to base it on a "developing" hazard.

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Horse
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Re: Cast your mind back ... ADIs ... Hazard Perception Test

Postby Horse » Fri Dec 17, 2021 9:46 am

jcochrane wrote:
Gareth wrote:
crr003 wrote:The secret is understanding the word "developing" hazard rather than "possible" hazard.

It's a bit late when the hazard is in play, which really does suggest the test isn't all that useful in a practical sense, for training drivers to be observant and to be able to assess and prepare for potential hazards.

Completely agree Gareth.


Although it's claimed to have led (or contributed) to an 11% reduction in crashes (or casualties, can't recall which), so it wasn't all bad.

Edit:
Research has shown that hazard perception training and testing could account for an 11% reduction in collisions, potentially saving hundreds of lives every year.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/haza ... fety-award

jcochrane wrote:It puts into question as to who is responsible for the decision to base it on a "developing" hazard.


I heard that, at the time, it was determined to be an achievable test, doing more wasn't. And, to be fair, if you're not aware of a potential hazard then you might not (probably won't IMHO) react* when it 'develops' from potential to actual danger (to use the old Blue Book terms).

* Soon enough for a 'pass' score in the scoring time window.

'Nother edit:

https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... Perception

Developments in Hazard Perception
January 1997
Report number: TRL 297Affiliation: University of Reading
Authors: Frank P. Mckenna University of Reading, Jeffrey Crick NATS Holdings

Abstract
It has been found that in the early part of a driver’s career the ability to detect hazards is poorly developed. There appears little doubt that with experience hazard perception improves, but relying purely on experience may be a slow, inefficient and dangerous procedure. One of the aims of the present work was to determine if remedial measures could be readily designed. A hazard perception training programme was developed that incorporated the features of being relatively short in duration (total of four hours) and could be carried out off-road. In two experiments it was shown that the training programme was successful in improving the time taken to detect hazards. The specific ingredient that was shown to be successful was the requirement to make predictions of what would happen next. A second aim of the research was to examine the widespread belief that driving is an automatic task. The claim here is that with practice the driving task becomes relatively undemanding, allowing the driver to carry out other tasks without interference. The present research examined whether hazard perception was disrupted by carrying out another task. It was found that there was interference in the time taken to detect hazards. This and subsequent research supports the notion that hazard perception is not an automatic process. The final aim of the research was to determine if it was possible to use the same video methodology that has been used in hazard perception to develop an equivalent measure of driver speed choice. It is shown that the video based methodology can be used to assess driver speed choice.


So, publication in 1997. That means being worked on 25 years ago. Put that into context, bloated Roadcraft was published in 1995. Back then, 'hazard perception' was not a particularly well-known concept.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

crr003
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Re: Cast your mind back ... ADIs ... Hazard Perception Test

Postby crr003 » Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:01 pm

Gareth wrote:
crr003 wrote:The secret is understanding the word "developing" hazard rather than "possible" hazard.

It's a bit late when the hazard is in play, which really does suggest the test isn't all that useful in a practical sense, for training drivers to be observant and to be able to assess and prepare for potential hazards.

But you have to know the hazard is there to know when it's developing? I'm talking about scoring well on the Government approved test.

"You get points for spotting the developing hazards as soon as they start to happen.
A developing hazard is something that would cause you to take action, like changing speed or direction."
https://www.safedrivingforlife.info/fre ... tion-test/

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Re: Cast your mind back ... ADIs ... Hazard Perception Test

Postby Gareth » Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:23 pm

crr003 wrote:But you have to know the hazard is there to know when it's developing?

I guess, but ...
crr003 wrote:"... A developing hazard is something that would cause you to take action, like changing speed or direction."

I think we might be taking action before that point, to allow more space and time if it starts to develop.

For experienced drivers, I think after training to include mitigations against potential hazards, it's difficult to merely respond to developing hazards.

Edited to add: could it that inexperienced drivers don't have enough experience to be proactive so the best that can be managed is to train them in being earlier reactive?
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...

crr003
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Re: Cast your mind back ... ADIs ... Hazard Perception Test

Postby crr003 » Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:25 pm

Gareth wrote:
crr003 wrote:But you have to know the hazard is there to know when it's developing?

I guess, but ...
crr003 wrote:"... A developing hazard is something that would cause you to take action, like changing speed or direction."

I think we might be taking action before that point, to allow more space and time if it starts to develop.

For experienced drivers, I think after training to include mitigations against potential hazards, it's difficult to merely respond to developing hazards.

Edited to add: could it that inexperienced drivers don't have enough experience to be proactive so the best that can be managed is to train them in being earlier reactive?

I think anything that is a hurdle for proper learners is good (if it makes some sort of sense).
The HPT for experienced drivers has always been contentious. When I took my ADI Part 1 (theory/HPT) if I might just be allowed to mention I got 100/100 :ugeek: on the questions, but only 59/75 on HPT (pass at 57).
Obviously the algorithm is flawed!

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Horse
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Re: Cast your mind back ... ADIs ... Hazard Perception Test

Postby Horse » Fri Dec 17, 2021 4:26 pm

crr003 wrote:The HPT for experienced drivers has always been contentious. When I took my ADI Part 1 (theory/HPT) if I might just be allowed to mention I got 100/100 :ugeek: on the questions, but only 59/75 on HPT (pass at 57).
Obviously the algorithm is flawed!


Did I mention getting a DVD to see how it worked, then dropping just one point? Oh I did? Ah, sorry, won't do it again (the test, that is ;) ).
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.


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