Post Covid Travel

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exportmanuk
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Post Covid Travel

Postby exportmanuk » Tue May 05, 2020 3:02 pm

With reports for various parts of the UK that the rush hour traffic has increased over the last week or two and is now somewhere around 30% of the normal volumes It got me thinking what is going to happen once "Normal working" resumes? Who will be happy to use Public transport.

Manchester city council today announce that Deansgate (the A34 running along the south west of the City centre) is going to be Temporarily(?) pedestrianised to allow the shopping public more room to social distance Not sure how that will work if the shops are restricted to having a 2 meter separation how many people will there be allowed to shop. The city is not private vehicle friendly anyway so how will they get there.

The Trafford shopping centre will I'm sure be very happy with this announcement.

Will Covid 19 be the final nail in the coffin of our city centre shopping and leisure

Worse still central London, as someone who would normally be a monthly commuter on the Waterloo to Bank Line tube ( the drain) where people are packed into the carriages tighter than sardines in a can of sardines. Will people really be happy to share this space?

It was reported that on a London Double Decker bus to maintain the 2 meter distance the capacity would be 15 people. These things are just not practical.

On the news at lunch time it was admitted that social distancing on plane would be ineffectual as the air is constantly recirculated.

The future is going to be interesting
Andrew Melton
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sussex2
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Re: Post Covid Travel

Postby sussex2 » Wed May 06, 2020 9:14 am

I live in Barcelona and come under the rules and regs of both Spain and our autonomous region. I post this as it may be of interest to members in other countries and regions.

The lock down restrictions here have been strict, very strict. It has only been in the last few days that people have been allowed out for exercise and for restricted periods and distances only. The exercise must be conducted within your own municipality and you may not use a car to reach the start point.

In a great many shops there is a one in and one out rule and face coverings or masks are generally required (though not as yet a legal requirement) except on public transport of any kind where masks are required. Two metre spacing is the norm.

Until a few days ago only the driver was allowed in private cars and any foray from the house had to be done singly (still the case except for the exercise periods). It is now possible to have another passenger in the car but they must sit in the back on the opposite side to the driver. The case of commercial/delivery vehicles is slightly different.

Masks must be worn on public transport (all types) and any vehicle with a capacity of more than 9 persons (driver included) can only have one person in each row of seats.
On buses you must enter by the rear doors and have already bought your ticket/travel card - again only one person per row of seats.
Trains have a greatly reduced capacity both short and long distance (travel outside your home province is allowed in a few exceptional cases).

The two meter rule is pretty much adhered to by a large majority (this is a country where to speak closesly and hug and kiss friends on meeting has been the norm for generations).

A few bars and restaurants are open for take away service only (again in a country where meeting for coffee is an addiction and people generally take breakfast in a bar).

The police are very much in evidence and fines for flagrant breaches of the (well publicised and unambiguous) rules can be 600e and upwards. The government has announced 5 stages of easing the lockdown depending entirely on how well things go. The Barcelona region has already decided not to move from the 0 position to the 1st stage of relaxing as it is not felt sufficient progress has been made. It should be born in mind that the area is heavily industrialised and there is a lot of tooing and froing.

As for post Covid then there will be huge changes (my opinion) and we will have to adjust to that. I do not think it will be back to whatever normal was at least for several years, if at all.

It is commonly thought that the air on aircraft is largely recirculated but this is not the case and modern pax aircraft can have up to 75% fresh air in the cabin. It may be that there is more danger from touching surfaces than from the air around you.

https://aviation.stackexchange.com/ques ... ners-cabin

https://www.tripsavvy.com/air-quality-d ... ight-54164

Gareth
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Re: Post Covid Travel

Postby Gareth » Wed May 06, 2020 9:31 am

The relative risk of surface versus airborne transmission doesn't seem clear but I've been thinking for a while that the former isn't particularly significant else there'd be a much higher incidence in the general population -- we all touch the provisions we buy ...
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...

sussex2
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Re: Post Covid Travel

Postby sussex2 » Wed May 06, 2020 10:04 am

Gareth wrote:The relative risk of surface versus airborne transmission doesn't seem clear but I've been thinking for a while that the former isn't particularly significant else there'd be a much higher incidence in the general population -- we all touch the provisions we buy ...


We bring them home and wash them when it is possible.

sussex2
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Re: Post Covid Travel

Postby sussex2 » Wed May 06, 2020 10:09 am

sussex2 wrote:
Gareth wrote:The relative risk of surface versus airborne transmission doesn't seem clear but I've been thinking for a while that the former isn't particularly significant else there'd be a much higher incidence in the general population -- we all touch the provisions we buy ...


We bring them home and wash them when it is possible.
I believe we are going to have to become used to or insist on much more stringent hygiene.

The older UK members may remember the sand paper that passed as IZAL medicated toilet paper! That monstrosity came about as a reaction to an epidemic. The constant 'wash your hands' from my mother no doubt for the same reason.
Back to basics perhaps? Though I am not suggesting a return to IZAL medicated :o

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exportmanuk
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Re: Post Covid Travel

Postby exportmanuk » Wed May 06, 2020 11:47 am

sussex2 wrote:Back to basics perhaps? Though I am not suggesting a return to IZAL medicated :o


IZAL Medicated I remember that from School. :o Horrible stuff.

I am seeing an increasing number of people wearing face masks when out and about, but I wonder if wearing it makes the user invincible? Many people behave as if this is is true with other PPE
Andrew Melton
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Gareth
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Re: Post Covid Travel

Postby Gareth » Wed May 06, 2020 11:54 am

sussex2 wrote:We bring them home and wash them when it is possible.

I think, at a practical level, we're not able to avoid moving contamination from one surface to another. The only thing we can do is wash our hands before touching our eyes, mouth or nose, and most of us are probably quite unlikely to be doing that. I reckon the best most of us can hope to achieve is to wash our hands after going to the toilet and before eating food.

Given the amount of coffee I'm drinking these days I'm surprised I have time for anything other than washing my hands ...


exportmanuk wrote:I am seeing an increasing number of people wearing face masks when out and about, but I wonder if wearing it makes the user invincible? Many people behave as if this is is true with other PPE

I'm fairly well convinced that most people with face coverings are more lax about social distancing. I think it's funny when people are queuing for a supermarket with face mask or other covering, then pull the mask or covering down to use their smartphones. It feels like it's the less smart thing to do!
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...

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akirk
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Re: Post Covid Travel

Postby akirk » Wed May 06, 2020 12:36 pm

A lot more working from home will reduce commuting...

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jont-
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Re: Post Covid Travel

Postby jont- » Wed May 06, 2020 12:47 pm

akirk wrote:A lot more working from home will reduce commuting...

I hope so. It's going to be interesting to see how companies react. We've certainly got people that can't wait to be back in the office (enjoy social contact, don't have space at home to work comfortably), but a significant number have said they'd like to work from home more, and some of us would be happy never to see the office again...

I agree there seems to be a lot of false confidence around masks and gloves and people misunderstanding exactly what their purpose is or how to use them properly.

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Strangely Brown
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Re: Post Covid Travel

Postby Strangely Brown » Wed May 06, 2020 1:01 pm

Gareth wrote:The relative risk of surface versus airborne transmission doesn't seem clear but I've been thinking for a while that the former isn't particularly significant else there'd be a much higher incidence in the general population -- we all touch the provisions we buy ...


How do you know there isn't a much higher incidence in the general population?
If the vast majority of infections are either very mild symptoms or asymptomatic those cases will never be reported.


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