Has IAM Roadsmart given up on advanced training?

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Ohlins
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Re: Has IAM Roadsmart given up on advanced training?

Postby Ohlins » Fri May 13, 2022 1:35 pm

While one person is hardly significant statistically, things I learned in advanced training have directly helped me avoid a couple of serious incidents. E.g., positioning towards the nearside meant I was already out of the way when an oncoming driver (whom I guessed was drunk or unwell) would have otherwise hit me.

However, I feel strongly that a lot depends on the type, content and quality of training. Not all advanced training is created equal.

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Horse
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Re: Has IAM Roadsmart given up on advanced training?

Postby Horse » Fri May 13, 2022 2:59 pm

And that emphasises that if there are potential safety benefits from advanced stuff, then they should be incorporated into L training, so everyone benefits.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

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Horse
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Re: Has IAM Roadsmart given up on advanced training?

Postby Horse » Fri May 13, 2022 3:27 pm

Ohlins wrote:things I learned in advanced training have directly helped me avoid a couple of serious incidents. E.g., positioning towards the nearside meant I was already out of the way when an oncoming driver (whom I guessed was drunk or unwell) would have otherwise hit me.


Sort of covered by:

Maintain a suitable position on the road.

Keep a safe position in the lane.

Keep to the left in normal driving, unless otherwise instructed.

How to judge where to position your vehicle ... when approaching a bend

ensure that your vehicle is in an appropriate position on the road ... so that you can respond appropriately to any hazard


DVSA Car and light van driving syllabus
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

waremark
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Re: Has IAM Roadsmart given up on advanced training?

Postby waremark » Fri May 13, 2022 11:25 pm

"Highly unlikely to have come from emphasis on making progress, positioning for bends and chasing the limit point, etc."

How do other Observers/Tutors sell the benefits of those elements of Advanced Driving. One of my lines is that for you to be called Advanced, you have to demonstrate that you can maintain safety and smoothness when you are taking your spouse to A&E/late for a meeting etc.

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jont-
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Re: Has IAM Roadsmart given up on advanced training?

Postby jont- » Sat May 14, 2022 5:22 am

Horse wrote:And that emphasises that if there are potential safety benefits from advanced stuff, then they should be incorporated into L training, so new drivers benefit.

/efa. If everyone was going to benefit, there would need to be some sort of regular retraining/reassessment for all drivers.

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Horse
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Re: Has IAM Roadsmart given up on advanced training?

Postby Horse » Sat May 14, 2022 6:36 am

jont- wrote:
Horse wrote:And that emphasises that if there are potential safety benefits from advanced stuff, then they should be incorporated into L training, so new drivers benefit.

/efa. If everyone was going to benefit, there would need to be some sort of regular retraining/reassessment for all drivers.


An extension of that concern is where skills such as skid control have been taught. Over time, the skill fades because it is not rehearsed - but the confidence remains.

However, as I suggested earlier, I didn't mean that, instead:

Probably a few simple things like improved forward obs, along with maintaining extended following distances.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

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Horse
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Re: Has IAM Roadsmart given up on advanced training?

Postby Horse » Sat May 14, 2022 6:45 am

waremark wrote:"Highly unlikely to have come from emphasis on making progress, positioning for bends and chasing the limit point, etc."

How do other Observers/Tutors sell the benefits of those elements of Advanced Driving. One of my lines is that for you to be called Advanced, you have to demonstrate that you can maintain safety and smoothness when you are taking your spouse to A&E/late for a meeting etc.


Have you ever tried driving 'against a clock', to reduce journey time? How much time, over what length of journey, do you think could legally be 'saved'?

And 'maintain' safety? If you increase your speed, what other changes are you making to balance the resulting reduction in safety (because of the effects on thinking and braking distance and reduced safety margins e.g. stopping distance around blind bends, the likely increased severity of a crash, etc.)?
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

Gareth
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Re: Has IAM Roadsmart given up on advanced training?

Postby Gareth » Sat May 14, 2022 7:15 am

Horse wrote:if there are potential safety benefits from advanced stuff, then they should be incorporated into L training, so everyone benefits.

I think most learners have a limited capacity to absorb subtleties; they need to have internalised the basics first.

While I think the first additional step should be learned by learners, the kind of difference I'm thinking about is always stopping at roundabouts versus multitasking - aiming to stop at roundabouts while also looking ahead to see if it's clear to continue or, a step further, looking ahead for a circulating gap to use or, a step further, looking for an exiting vehicle that allows entry or, a step further, looking for a circulating vehicle that blocks the next vehicle to the right from entering.
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Has IAM Roadsmart given up on advanced training?

Postby GTR1400MAN » Sat May 14, 2022 7:21 am

waremark wrote:"Highly unlikely to have come from emphasis on making progress, positioning for bends and chasing the limit point, etc."

How do other Observers/Tutors sell the benefits of those elements of Advanced Driving. One of my lines is that for you to be called Advanced, you have to demonstrate that you can maintain safety and smoothness when you are taking your spouse to A&E/late for a meeting etc.

Enjoyment. :biker:

It's much easier to convince bikers as they want to ride.
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Gareth
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Re: Has IAM Roadsmart given up on advanced training?

Postby Gareth » Sat May 14, 2022 7:24 am

Horse wrote:
waremark wrote:One of my lines is that for you to be called Advanced, you have to demonstrate that you can maintain safety and smoothness when you are taking your spouse to A&E/late for a meeting etc.

Have you ever tried driving 'against a clock', to reduce journey time? How much time, over what length of journey, do you think could legally be 'saved'

I think the questions miss the point; when people are anxious or flustered from feeling the pressure of time, their attention and roadcraft often goes to pot. People who still drive/ride well, safely, in such circumstances are clearly more advanced than those who don't.

To answer the questions, time may be gained by accelerating through or away from hazards earlier and more briskly, carrying more speed between hazards, (whether or not going over the limit, see B&T examples), firmer braking prior to hazards albeit retaining smooth transitions into and out of the firmer braking phase, being more assertive in looking for and taking the lane of least resistance, having better observation to spot when bus lanes aren't active, and so on. Whether they make a huge difference is impossible to measure, of course. None of these are necessary in ordinary driving, although better observation is always good even if advantage isn't always taken.
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...


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