Has IAM Roadsmart given up on advanced training?

[Triquet]

At the end of the day: "If you're going to drive, don't do it rubbish."

[Horse]

At the end of the day: "If you're going to drive, don't do it rubbish."

And that's the amazing thing. For all of the complaints about poor driving here, the UK has one of the world's best ksi rates.

Perhaps our rubbish should be the envy of the world?

[Gareth]

One of my lines is that for you to be called Advanced, you have to demonstrate that you can maintain safety and smoothness when you are taking your spouse to A&E/late for a meeting etc.

I took it to mean that would be 'special occasions' driving - i.e. not all drives, everywhere or anywhere.

When an observer is trying to nudge an associate in the right direction, including setting out the required standard, various word-pictures seem to help. Eventually something strikes a chord and the associate has a better idea about what they're aiming for, and this can be supported by demonstrations.

It's clear that the aim for the test isn't 'Sunday' driving, it isn't a leisure or tourist drive, it isn't an attempt to maximise fuel economy, instead it's to demonstrate maintaining concentration and using observations to make reasonably good progress in safety for about an hour an a quarter. Making reasonably good progress includes driving up to the speed limit wherever it is safe to do so. It includes being brisk where appropriate but, also, slow where appropriate. It includes reasonably smooth transitions, so the passenger isn't thrown about.

I don't much care what an associate does on their own time, providing they've made a good stab at developing the capability to drive in an engaged manner, so that if they feel time pressure on a journey, they can still drive safely.

Is the expectation that someone who has passed the (whichever) test is subsequently always going to drive using 'engaged' driver standards, or is the expectation (or reality?) that, for some or the majority of their driving, they won't implement 'advanced' standards of observation and planning? They will be disengaged? i.e. For 'special occasions' driving, they will 'up their game'?

Who knows? That's their choice. There's no-one other than themselves to assess whether they're driving well, or whether they're being caught out by other road users behaving in way they hadn't considered or expected. The best we can hope for it that some little corner of their brain is paying a bit more attention and that, when necessary, sufficient focus returns to avoid them getting into awkward situations.

FWIW, and thinking about those who like to listen to audio books while they're driving, I often have music playing. Remarkably often I find I haven't heard most of a tune I really like, because the need to concentrate kicked in to the extent that my attention was on the driving. I can easily spend 10-15 minutes repeatedly pressing the start of track button in the hope of hearing it all the way through. Most often I just give up.

If the reality is that day-to-day driving standards will be lower (not just 'having an off day'), then perhaps I was asking the wrong question. Instead of "how do you maintain safety", maybe it should have been "how do you decide where to reduce your observation and planning?" or similar.

I think your questions are somewhat loaded. People don't decide to stop paying attention; they just do. People doing an advanced driving course will probably drive their best as the course concludes and, generally, their standard will decay over time unless they elect to change their approach. The difference will be whether 'advanced' driving is something they always try to do, or whether it is something they can switch on. And, if it's the latter, then unless they practice switching it on from time to time then, over time when it is switched on, it's probably going to be less switched on.

There might be other reasons for not wishing to make better progress. Recently I was mired in a series of motorways and dual-carriageways as I attempted to navigate around an unfamiliar city, just using the direction signs for guidance. I mostly kept to about 60 mph to avoid being too much slower than (some) other road users, although was willing to tuck in behind slightly slower vehicles if I wanted more time to interpret the signs. Realising that it was OK to take a wrong turning helped because then I wasn't so anxious; I'd aim to look for a junction or roundabout to turn-around, if necessary. In this way I was able to realise the repeated A720 signs were only for the direction I didn't wish to take, made clear by the last pair which differentiated north from east!

I think "how do you maintain safety" is the correct question and the obvious answer is by concentrating and paying attention. On a long journey, though, it's necessary to pace yourself, because (I think) it's difficult or impossible to be continuously in a very high state of concentration. One way I give myself breaks on motorways is to be thinking about trying to keep a decent space around me, not getting wrought up with trying to go as fast as possible, trying to drive in such a way that I don't need to brake so often, trying to overtake slower vehicles without disrupting the flow of other vehicles and with lots of warning to other road users.

[Horse]

FWIW, and thinking about those who like to listen to audio books while they're driving, I often have music playing. Remarkably often I find I haven't heard most of a tune I really like, because the need to concentrate kicked in to the extent that my attention was on the driving. I can easily spend 10-15 minutes repeatedly pressing the start of track button in the hope of hearing it all the way through. Most often I just give up.

I usually have the radio on. Ironically, during commuting, I know I've 'missed' traffic news because of concentration on traffic

I think "how do you maintain safety" is the correct question and the obvious answer is by concentrating and paying attention. On a long journey, though, it's necessary to pace yourself, because (I think) it's difficult or impossible to be continuously in a very high state of concentration. One way I give myself breaks on motorways is to be thinking about trying to keep a decent space around me, not getting wrought up with trying to go as fast as possible, trying to drive in such a way that I don't need to brake so often, trying to overtake slower vehicles without disrupting the flow of other vehicles and with lots of warning to other road users.

I set myself challenges, typically around smoothness and accuracy (such as being on power before bend).

As a result of lockdowns and medically-enforced six months off driving, I have recognised a significant fall in my standard and using these challenges is helping to rebuild.

If part of training is developing that self-awareness and helping drivers to assess themselves, they can recognise where self-improvement effort is needed (if they consider there is a benefit from doing so).

[hir]

I haven't read the whole of this thread in detail so apologies if this has already been covered.

There is one simple rule when it comes to speed. Only drive up to a speed that allows you to stop comfortably on the tarmac available to stop on. The "risk" from speed alone will then be zero. put another way...available tarmac to stop on determines speed.

Exactly this. It’s the one universal rule of the road ; it applies to any driver, driving any vehicle, on any road, anywhere in the world, at all times.

[Triquet]

I haven't read the whole of this thread in detail so apologies if this has already been covered.

There is one simple rule when it comes to speed. Only drive up to a speed that allows you to stop comfortably on the tarmac available to stop on. The "risk" from speed alone will then be zero. put another way...available tarmac to stop on determines speed.

Exactly this. It’s the one universal rule of the road ; it applies to any driver, driving any vehicle, on any road, anywhere in the world, at all times.

Possibly except Cairo.

[waremark]

"Is the expectation that someone who has passed the (whichever) test is subsequently always going to drive using 'engaged' driver standards, or is the expectation (or reality?) that, for some or the majority of their driving, they won't implement 'advanced' standards of observation and planning? They will be disengaged? i.e. For 'special occasions' driving, they will 'up their game'?"

In what my equine friend has called the original quote, I was focused on the process of preparing for an advanced test. I was talking about how to encourage Associates or Mentees who drive less progressively than an Examiner would like to see on test. I encourage them to try to drive in the fully focused fashion looking for opportunities to make progress safely and smoothly but within the limit every time they drive while preparing. I believe it takes further development as a driver to have the capacity to switch on and off different styles.

[Gareth]

I believe it takes further development as a driver to have the capacity to switch on and off different styles.

While I agree with that, so far as styles of driving is concerned, I think our stressed friend would often talk about the difference between people who do something all the time versus those who only do it for special occasions. That seems to me to be the risk with advanced driving, maybe riding as well, in that some of those who can don't see the need or benefit to always be doing. I think it requires a firm decision such as deciding that, for example, from this point on I will not enter bends too quickly.

[WhoseGeneration]

Whilst I sometimes find Horse's posts to be a bit too "academic" I do fully agree with his signature.
I try to always drive as if on test, which sometimes leads to discussion with my wife, also IAM, when she tells me I'm driving too slowly or too fast.
To expand, too slowly, in her view, is often in town and urban environments, too fast, open rural roads.

[waremark]

I believe it takes further development as a driver to have the capacity to switch on and off different styles.

While I agree with that, so far as styles of driving is concerned, I think our stressed friend would often talk about the difference between people who do something all the time versus those who only do it for special occasions. That seems to me to be the risk with advanced driving, maybe riding as well, in that some of those who can don't see the need or benefit to always be doing. I think it requires a firm decision such as deciding that, for example, from this point on I will not enter bends too quickly.

Does anybody think they enter bends too quickly? I assume people who enter bends too quickly don't realise they are doing so.

The choices I make are more along the lines of - am I driving with a Gareth/JCochrane, is this a chauffeur drive, is it just me and my wife, or is it an IAM demo where I drive as though there is a police car behind me. Then there are other choices - am I using DDC, am I using H&T, am I trying to keep the revs low or do I want to hear the engine sing.

For those preparing for an Advanced Test or Masters (IAM speak), as I said before I strongly recommend trying to drive the way they think the examiner will want to see all the time during the period of preparation.