Has IAM Roadsmart given up on advanced training?

[Horse]

What is the pass rate for second tests? Are most that fail first time getting right with the next attempt?

48.4% of people taking their second test pass, and 46.1% of people on their third attempt get their licence.


I must admit to being surprised that the first time rate is so low.

For comparison:

Pass rates for practical motorcycle road tests in Great Britain (UK) in 2020 to 2021, by age group
Age Pass rate
17-20 73.9%
21-29 75.8%
30-39 73.4%
40-49 70.9%
2 more rows

[crr003]

What is the pass rate for second tests? Are most that fail first time getting right with the next attempt?

48.4% of people taking their second test pass, and 46.1% of people on their third attempt get their licence.


I must admit to being surprised that the first time rate is so low.

(Disclaimer - O Level maths was a while ago) - 1000 punters shelling out £62 a test will contribute £112,380 for the first three tests (some will carry on contributing.....). If they all passed first time, DVSA would "lose" £50,380.
And they want to increase a standard test cost.

[Ohlins]

Trouble is that there's little solid evidence that driver (and rider) education makes much difference to crash rates.

It depends on the training. While I have read some of the research showing inadequate evidence of benefit, I also had access to my (former) company's fleet safety records. High-quality training (in this case, a day's 1:1 with an advanced professional instructor) reduced the accident rate significantly. They only paid for fleet training because it cut accident costs.

Regarding BRAKE, the IAM (Neil Greig) agreed with them on every point throughout the podcast. I was surprised.

[Strangely Brown]

Regarding BRAKE, the IAM (Neil Greig) agreed with them on every point throughout the podcast. I was surprised.

Why were you surprised? I doubt anyone else here is.

[jont-]

Regarding BRAKE, the IAM (Neil Greig) agreed with them on every point throughout the podcast. I was surprised.

Given the audience, what else do you expect him to do? You can't present reasoned facts and debate sensibly in the face of an emotive argument (and as Horse would say, the facts wouldn't even support the case for training over more restrictions on our liberties).

[Horse]

Trouble is that there's little solid evidence that driver (and rider) education makes much difference to crash rates.

It depends on the training. While I have read some of the research showing inadequate evidence of benefit, I also had access to my (former) company's fleet safety records. High-quality training (in this case, a day's 1:1 with an advanced professional instructor) reduced the accident rate significantly. They only paid for fleet training because it cut accident costs.

And it's highly likely that the elements of that fleet training that actually made a difference really weren't particularly 'advanced'. Probably a few simple things like improved forward obs, along with maintaining extended following distances.

Highly unlikely to have come from emphasis on making progress, positioning for bends and chasing the limit point, etc.

[jont-]

Trouble is that there's little solid evidence that driver (and rider) education makes much difference to crash rates.

It depends on the training. While I have read some of the research showing inadequate evidence of benefit, I also had access to my (former) company's fleet safety records. High-quality training (in this case, a day's 1:1 with an advanced professional instructor) reduced the accident rate significantly. They only paid for fleet training because it cut accident costs.

And it's highly likely that the elements of that fleet training that actually made a difference really weren't particularly 'advanced'. Probably a few simple things like improved forward obs, along with maintaining extended following distances.

Highly unlikely to have come from emphasis on making progress, positioning for bends and chasing the limit point, etc.

Or even "put the **** phone down when you're driving and stop taking calls on hands free"

[Horse]

Or even "put the **** phone down when you're driving and stop taking calls on hands free"

I won't be able to find it quickly, but there has been research that suggested [some] phone users will either only use their phones in relatively low risk situations, or adjust their driving to suit.

However, there was other research (ditto finding) that compared insurance claims with phone records and found that the distraction persists for up to 20 minutes after the call has ended.

[Gareth]

Trouble is that there's little solid evidence that driver (and rider) education makes much difference to crash rates.

A person only has to sit next to a learner to see that, despite a lack of formal evidence, such a view is total bollocks. Unless it is assumed that once learners have had a serious enough crash they take themselves out of the equation.

[Horse]

Trouble is that there's little solid evidence that driver (and rider) education makes much difference to crash rates.

A person only has to sit next to a learner to see that, despite a lack of formal evidence, such a view is total bollocks.

Formal training works as a shortcut.

Research comparing riders who took training and those who didn't found that, over time, the differences evened out.