Brake and their RoadMap

[crr003]

And, of course, the lack of a maximum limit on a particular road doesn't mean that any speed is a good idea.

I'm surprised you wrote that - since when has a number on a stick been a safe speed?

Not quite sure what you read from that? Certainly it didn't say 'the speed limit = safe'.

As you go on to say (or imply), the limits are the road, road user(s) and vehicle(s).

Ok, I was looking for an implication that a maximum limit in normal terms 50/60/70mph allows normal drivers to think they're driving safely as they fall off the 30mph corner - "but I was doing the speed limit officer, as the council has set, so I was safe".

[dvenman]

"but I was doing the speed limit officer, as the council has set, so I was safe".

And therein lies the rub. I seem to remember there's no longer a need to a safety case to be made to change a limit, and councils have the power to do it themselves, so local opinion can force a change whether there's a safety case or not.

[vieuxtigre]

That's true. The current DfT Circular (01/2013) is guidance only. Reasons given by my County HA include:- ""for preserving and improving amenities..." and "facilitating the passage on the road... of any class of traffic". Am writing this whilst listening to R4 Positive Thinking on Vision Zero whose vision, they've just said, is to "take responsibility away from drivers completely and attribute it to the road system". Naturally Brake are heavily represented!

[martine]

If anyone's interested, the Radio 4 Positive Thinking episode is here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000yknw

Thanks vieuxtigre

[Strangely Brown]

Vision Zero whose vision, they've just said, is to "take responsibility away from drivers completely and attribute it to the road system".

What does that even mean? It's all double-talk and flim-flam.

Certainly adds a whole new meaning to "that road is treacherous".

[Horse]

Vision Zero whose vision, they've just said, is to "take responsibility away from drivers completely and attribute it to the road system".

What does that even mean? It's all double-talk and flim-flam.

Certainly adds a whole new meaning to "that road is treacherous".

I think that might be the intention?

ie Should 'treacherous' roads be accepted? As part of this, construct so that drivers can 'fail safely', so barriers to prevent unintentional diversions in (for example) bridge abutments. Then supplement that with vehicles that can provide protection for the occupants should a collision occur. etc.

And before any suggests I'm agreeing with it, I'm answering SB's question.

Also, AFAIK, there is no intention to reduce training and testing standards - but adding acceptance that crashes will happen.

[Horse]

Possibly this?
https://www.who.int/roadsafety/publicat ... rategy/en/

a safe system approach, outlines 12 key actions spread across five pillars: road safety management, safer vehicles, safer road users, post-crash response and safer driving environment.

[vanman]

If anyone's interested, the Radio 4 Positive Thinking episode is here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000yknw

Thanks vieuxtigre

Thankyou for that Martin. So Brake's answer is to restrict motor vehicles to the speed limit. Nothing about driving to conditions, so if it is raining, snowing, foggy or there are a lot of vulnerable people about, it is safe to drive at that speed limit. But if you are one mile an hour above that limit then you are really asking for trouble. Vision Zero is going to remove the personal responsibility from the individual and put on the authority (whoever that may be). I can see that really working "I was driving at the speed limit and hit a car in the fog, skidded on the ice, hit the old lady on the crossing because I was not over the speed limit, therefore I am not responsible for the accident"
Brilliant we can all drive as fast as the car will let us no matter what else is going on.

[Horse]

If anyone's interested, the Radio 4 Positive Thinking episode is here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000yknw

Vision Zero is going to remove the personal responsibility from the individual

I haven't had an opportunity to listen to the recording yet. Is that ^ explicitly stated?

[vanman]

oh yes!