Brake and their RoadMap

Anything that doesn't fit elsewhere - doesn't have to be AD related.
User avatar
jcochrane
Posts: 627
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:53 pm
Location: Surrey-Kent borders and wherever good driving roads are.

Re: Brake and their RoadMap

Postby jcochrane » Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:28 pm

hir wrote:
mainbeam wrote:Surely the whole point of being able to complete the manoeuvre within 50% of the distance judged as being available is because it is impossible to guarantee getting right.


Just a thought but, I would suggest an overtake needs to be completed within one third of the distance seen to be clear.

If you make it 50% it doesn't take account of the oncoming vehicle/motor bike that may appear a fraction of a second after you've committed to the overtake. 50% may mean a tight squeeze to get back in or the oncoming vehicle has to brake to let you back in.

Additionally if the approaching vehicle is travelling at a higher speed than you, when it appears, then allowing to get back in a third of the distance rather than half is more than wise. :shock:

Jonquirk
Posts: 334
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:48 pm
Location: Guildford

Re: Brake and their RoadMap

Postby Jonquirk » Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:33 am

Brake’s approach is counterproductive because it will lead to some drivers acting to impede others overtaking in the mistaken view that they are helping to prevent a dangerous act. It is probably unrealistic to expect to teach everyone how to overtake, and the roads would get pretty chaotic if everyone was always looking for a chance to overtake. What would help though is teaching that overtaking is allowed, does not make you less of a driver if you are overtaken, and how to help when you are not interested in making better progress, or are being overtaken, by leaving a suitable gap, not speeding up, etc.

User avatar
Horse
Posts: 3558
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:20 am

Re: Brake and their RoadMap

Postby Horse » Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:46 am

Jonquirk wrote: does not make you less of a driver if you are overtaken,


What's that old saying about the three things that blokes don't like being criticised for? ;)


To achieve this would require a massive change in mindset, not just for driving. A radical move to prosocial attitudes, acceptance and understanding of inner locus of control, etc.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

hir
Posts: 590
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:16 pm

Re: Brake and their RoadMap

Postby hir » Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:54 am

Jonquirk wrote:Brake’s approach is counterproductive because it will lead to some drivers acting to impede others overtaking in the mistaken view that they are helping to prevent a dangerous act. It is probably unrealistic to expect to teach everyone how to overtake, and the roads would get pretty chaotic if everyone was always looking for a chance to overtake. What would help though is teaching that overtaking is allowed, does not make you less of a driver if you are overtaken, and how to help when you are not interested in making better progress, or are being overtaken, by leaving a suitable gap, not speeding up, etc.


hear, hear

hir
Posts: 590
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:16 pm

Re: Brake and their RoadMap

Postby hir » Sun Aug 08, 2021 8:29 am

Horse wrote:
Jonquirk wrote: does not make you less of a driver if you are overtaken,



To achieve this would require a massive change in mindset, not just for driving. A radical move to prosocial attitudes, acceptance and understanding of inner locus of control, etc.


The approach that jonquirk outlines above, is exactly how drivers were taught in the 50s, 60s and 70s. Even in the south of England! In my experience the only place in Great Britain where this mindset still applies are the remoter parts of Scotland.

There are probably many reasons for this change in attitude but I suspect that one significant cause is that all cars are far more powerful than the cars of 50 years ago and the speed/acceleration of the vast majority of cars are now very evenly matched. Fifty years ago there were "sports" cars that could do 0-60 mph in a blistering 10 seconds and for the rest of us there was the likes of the 39bhp Ford Popular 100E that could do 0-60mph in 27 seconds. But, nowadays I've got a powerful "mowtah", and I'm a "good" driver, so anyone trying to overtake me must be an idiot; not for trying to overtake me, but for thinking they can, idiots!

Interestingly, the E-type Jaguar of that earlier golden age was capable of 0-60mph in 7.6 seconds, which is well within the capability of many family cars of today; and with better brakes! There aren't many currently available cars that can't do 0-60mph in less than 10 seconds. Hence the mindset of... none shall go faster than I.

User avatar
jont-
Posts: 1522
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:12 am
Location: Herefordshire

Re: Brake and their RoadMap

Postby jont- » Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:05 pm

Horse wrote:To achieve this would require a massive change in mindset, not just for driving. A radical move to prosocial attitudes, acceptance and understanding of inner locus of control, etc.

Wouldn't that be a better ambition than ever more dumbing down to follow the trend of lowest common denominator?

waremark
Posts: 898
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:23 am

Re: Brake and their RoadMap

Postby waremark » Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:31 pm

hir wrote:Interestingly, the E-type Jaguar of that earlier golden age was capable of 0-60mph in 7.6 seconds, which is well within the capability of many family cars of today; and with better brakes! There aren't many currently available cars that can't do 0-60mph in less than 10 seconds. Hence the mindset of... none shall go faster than I.

As a schoolboy I had a lift from a friend's uncle who was a director of a major public company. He had a Rover 3500 - he said he had chosen it because it was the lowest cost saloon which would do 0 - 60 in under 10 seconds.

Forget the performance aspect, other social changes are illustrated. What car would a main board director of a major public company drive today?

User avatar
Horse
Posts: 3558
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:20 am

Re: Brake and their RoadMap

Postby Horse » Sun Aug 08, 2021 4:48 pm

jont- wrote:
Horse wrote:To achieve this would require a massive change in mindset, not just for driving. A radical move to prosocial attitudes, acceptance and understanding of inner locus of control, etc.

Wouldn't that be a better ambition than ever more dumbing down to follow the trend of lowest common denominator?


It might well be, with many potential benefits beyond road use.

But how would it be introduced? It would probably need to start with parenting skills and toddlers.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

crr003
Posts: 951
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:32 pm

Re: Brake and their RoadMap

Postby crr003 » Sun Aug 08, 2021 6:27 pm

Horse wrote:
Jonquirk wrote: does not make you less of a driver if you are overtaken,


What's that old saying about the three things that blokes don't like being criticised for? ;)


To achieve this would require a massive change in mindset, not just for driving. A radical move to prosocial attitudes, acceptance and understanding of inner locus of control, etc.

Crikey - they've managed all that on the Isle of Man then. No problem overtaking/being overtaken over there.

Or maybe it's because there's no artificial dumbed down speed limit which sets unrealistic expectations of "being safe", and people are allowed to drive. :car:

User avatar
Horse
Posts: 3558
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:20 am

Re: Brake and their RoadMap

Postby Horse » Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:32 pm

crr003 wrote:Crikey - they've managed all that on the Isle of Man then. No problem overtaking/being overtaken over there.

Or maybe it's because there's no artificial dumbed down speed limit which sets unrealistic expectations of "being safe", and people are allowed to drive. :car:


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-i ... 337180.amp

People are twice as likely to be killed or seriously injured on the Isle of Man's roads than they are in England, Manx government statistics have shown.


An average of 81.2 people per 100,000 were hurt or died in crashes, compared to England's 40.8 from 2015 to 2017.

The Department of Home Affairs (DHA) said the numbers were influenced by "factors unique to the island".

The government has yet to confirm if the figures include deaths and serious injuries on closed roads during races.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.


Return to “General Chat”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 28 guests