Brake and their RoadMap

[Horse]

If it's impossible to judge the speed of oncoming traffic, perhaps they should question how scamera vans operate legally?

Aren't the vans usually parked, with the operator sat in the back?

Not quite the same as assessing approach speed when travelling at 50 or 60 yourself.

[Horse]

Sadly, there's little or no evidence that improving vehicle handling skills actually improves safety. In fact, there is evidence to the contrary. Any safety improvement is likely to come from developing 'insight', a sort of hazard perception plus.

I took that martine was referencing "insight" rather than your assumption of vehicle handling skills.

I think you're correct (ie that's what was meant, not that I assumed otherwise). But it's worth clarifying that control skills aspect, particularly with respect to a lot of current post-test training:

https://www.devittinsurance.com/guides/ ... ers/?amp=1

[Gareth]

If it's impossible to judge the speed of oncoming traffic, perhaps the police should be banned from overtaking.

[Strangely Brown]

If it's impossible to judge the speed of oncoming traffic, perhaps people should be banned from turning right, emerging from junctions, crossing the road, [add potential conflict situation here]

[Horse]

If it's impossible to judge the speed of oncoming traffic, perhaps people should be banned from turning right, emerging from junctions, crossing the road, [add potential conflict situation here]

Have a search for the full paper, read it in context. It includes examples and reasons.

[Strangely Brown]

If it's impossible to judge the speed of oncoming traffic, perhaps people should be banned from turning right, emerging from junctions, crossing the road, [add potential conflict situation here]

Have a search for the full paper, read it in context.

That context being:

Overtaking
Overtaking on single carriageways is incredibly risky and should be avoided. It is impossible to accurately judge the speed of approaching traffic, or the length of empty road in front of you, and when overtaking this can be fatal.

It is still a human using mk1 eyeball to judge how much and how quickly a remote object is growing in size. The same applies to the situations I and others have suggested.

Rather than just say it's hard so don't do it, maybe they would be better pushing for overtaking to be taught, properly, along with other aspects of rural road driving and include it on the test. AFAIK, nobody is taught how to overtake at all, let alone safely.

I detest this culture of dumbing down and LCD, and I have no time for people that support or acquiesce to it.

[jont-]

If it's impossible to judge the speed of oncoming traffic, perhaps people should be banned from turning right, emerging from junctions, crossing the road, [add potential conflict situation here]

Have a search for the full paper, read it in context.

That context being:

Overtaking
Overtaking on single carriageways is incredibly risky and should be avoided. It is impossible to accurately judge the speed of approaching traffic, or the length of empty road in front of you, and when overtaking this can be fatal.

It is still a human using mk1 eyeball to judge how much and how quickly a remote object is growing in size. The same applies to the situations I and others have suggested.

Rather than just say it's hard so don't do it, maybe they would be better pushing for overtaking to be taught, properly, along with other aspects of rural road driving and include it on the test. AFAIK, nobody is taught how to overtake at all, let alone safely.

I detest this culture of dumbing down and LCD, and I have no time for people that support or acquiesce to it.

And do brake members overtake tractors? Cyclists? Pedestrians walking in the roadway? It's hyperbole drivel that is factually untrue. It is very possible to judge the length of empty road and speed of approaching traffic. Just because /everyone/ might not be able to do it doesn't mean it's impossible

[Horse]

maybe they would be better pushing for overtaking to be taught, properly, along with other aspects of rural road driving and include it on the test. AFAIK, nobody is taught how to overtake at all, let alone safely.

I detest this culture of dumbing down and LCD, and I have no time for people that support or acquiesce to it.

I suppose it relates to what the majority of drivers need - or think they need.

With the ever tighter ratcheting down with solid white lines and lower limits, there are fewer opportunities to overtake.

I estimate that probably 98% of drivers are simply not interested in improving their driving skills.

Partly that may be due to their expectation that the L test is all they need.

[Triquet]

I've just been and looked at the source document / website. It all a bit depressing and is very much aimed at 40-mph man. Lots of bland generalisations.

[waremark]

It is still a human using mk1 eyeball to judge how much and how quickly a remote object is growing in size.

I agree with the principle of what you and others are saying but I don't think that bit is correct. I don't think the way we can judge the rate of approach of a distant object is its growth in size. The angular change of its width is very small until it gets closer than is relevant here. I think we have to base our judgement on other things such as the amount of scenery the approaching vehicle has passed in a given time and the increasing amount of detail we can see of the vehicle. I think I attach more importance to attempting to judge the available distance. When there is no oncoming vehicle in sight I look for at least 3 times the distance I expect to need for my overtake and when there is an oncoming vehicle I am more cautious than that.

A high-speed overtake in the face of oncoming traffic is indeed one of the most difficult things to judge. However I suspect that those with the training and confidence to do it tend to overtake more safely than the less skilled overtake bicycles when too close to a blind bend..