Blimey it's quiet...

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martine
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Re: Blimey it's quiet...

Postby martine » Wed Jan 06, 2021 4:27 pm

AndyP wrote:...Had breakfast.

Sounds about right... :geek:

I've never driven a car on Winter tyres...presumably if the temp is above say 5C they wear more quickly...or not?
Martin - Bristol IAM: IMI National Observer, Group Secretary, Masters (dist), DSA: ADI, Fleet, RoSPA (Dip)

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jont-
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Re: Blimey it's quiet...

Postby jont- » Wed Jan 06, 2021 4:54 pm

martine wrote:
AndyP wrote:...Had breakfast.

Sounds about right... :geek:

I've never driven a car on Winter tyres...presumably if the temp is above say 5C they wear more quickly...or not?

They will wear slightly faster in warmer temps, and stopping distances will be longer than summer tyres in warmer weather (I think 7C is usually taken as the tipping point). For proper winter use, they also should be changed at ~4mm tread, rather than what you might run a summer tyre to.

When new they can feel a bit squidgy and imprecise (since the tread moving around a lot is what helps them deal with snow and ice). The really fun bit is that in shitty conditions you can drive around almost normally, and end up wondering why everyone else seems to be struggling so much :lol: You do have to remind yourself to look out for who is following, since the odds are you'll be able to stop, but they won't.

I didn't used to be that bothered, until I tried them on someone elses car in anger in winter conditions and it pretty much converted me on the spot. It doesn't have to be snowy to benefit. Wet, <7C (so most winter commuting conditions, for those who remember/still commute) and you'll see benefits. Especially on modern performance cars which often have tyres much more biased to summer conditions.

Gareth
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Re: Blimey it's quiet...

Postby Gareth » Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:54 pm

GTR1400MAN wrote:A lot of this is marketing from the tyre manufacturers and that is where the pressure to impose this is coming from.

Not convinced. Makes little difference to the tyre manufacturers as a group, tyres get worn according to how much they're used, so in the long run there's no opportunity for more tyres to be sold.

GTR1400MAN wrote:There is absolutely no reason why all road cars couldn't be fitted with all season tyres.

Agree. From a road safety point of view, this would make sense for most of the UK.

GTR1400MAN wrote:Why are there so few available

No shortage, plenty available if someone wants to buy them.

GTR1400MAN wrote:why are all cars sold in the UK (and europe?) fitted with with 'summer' tyres?

People follow the fashion for 'sporty' even if they don't like the ride quality, they don't want tyres with sidewalls. How many buying new choose larger wheels with lower profile tyres?

FWIW approaching last winter I had all season tyres on the car I drive most often because I'd been too lazy to get more winters. Off the car I had two winters remaining with adequate tread, and a just legal spare. Initially I put the two winters on the back, to wear them out, but then I got a couple of new all seasons, so swapped around so the new all seasons were on the back and the mostly worn winters were on the front. I carry two spares, an all season on an alloy and a winter on a steel. And that's how it remained all last year and still is! I was hoping to wear out the winters but with the low mileage last year, there's still enough tread and sipes to be useful.
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...

hray
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Re: Blimey it's quiet...

Postby hray » Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:15 pm

I run Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tyres all year round. I don't really see the need for Winter tyres for myself. I've got (or should I say 'had', since it's now the norm) the luxury of choosing whether or not to visit the office, so if the conditions weren't suitable, I wouldn't be driving, and certainly not in a 'spirited' manner.
An extra grand for a second set of rims, however much the tyres cost, and importantly, somewhere to store them and a set of jacks! It just doesn't seem worthwhile to me.
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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Blimey it's quiet...

Postby GTR1400MAN » Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:16 pm

Gareth wrote:
GTR1400MAN wrote:A lot of this is marketing from the tyre manufacturers and that is where the pressure to impose this is coming from.

Not convinced. Makes little difference to the tyre manufacturers as a group, tyres get worn according to how much they're used, so in the long run there's no opportunity for more tyres to be sold.

So double the number the tyres sold per car on the road isn't more tyres sold? ;)
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

Gareth
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Re: Blimey it's quiet...

Postby Gareth » Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:24 pm

GTR1400MAN wrote:So double the number the tyres sold per car on the road isn't more tyres sold? ;)

Across a number of years I wear out the same number of tyres whatever type they are. How about you?
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...

Gareth
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Re: Blimey it's quiet...

Postby Gareth » Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:35 pm

jont- wrote:
martine wrote:presumably if the temp is above say 5C they wear more quickly...or not?
They will wear slightly faster in warmer temps, and stopping distances will be longer than summer tyres in warmer weather

I often wonder if the difference in stopping distances between summer and winter tyres used in the summer are so hugely different to that between good quality tyres and the cheapest that discerning customers often choose.

Again, for FWIW, I choose tyres to be help me out in the worst conditions, rather than the other way around.
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Blimey it's quiet...

Postby GTR1400MAN » Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:52 pm

Gareth wrote:
GTR1400MAN wrote:So double the number the tyres sold per car on the road isn't more tyres sold? ;)

Across a number of years I wear out the same number of tyres whatever type they are. How about you?

That's true but if it became law tomorrow just how many new tyres would need to be purchased? Also people often don't do the mileage to wear out tyres in the time of ownership.

I note you said all season tyres are readily available. Will have a look and see what's about in our vehicle sizes.
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

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jont-
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Re: Blimey it's quiet...

Postby jont- » Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:01 am

Gareth wrote:
jont- wrote:
martine wrote:presumably if the temp is above say 5C they wear more quickly...or not?
They will wear slightly faster in warmer temps, and stopping distances will be longer than summer tyres in warmer weather

I often wonder if the difference in stopping distances between summer and winter tyres used in the summer are so hugely different to that between good quality tyres and the cheapest that discerning customers often choose.

Probably not. There are various videos comparing the two online (tyre reviews and engineering explained that I've seen) so you could probably find the relevant data. If I had my way, ditchfinders would be banned too. If you want to run a car, do it properly, not on a shoestring. It's strange how there's so much legislation around "safety" and driving, but nothing around the single thing that keeps your car in contact with the road and might be one of the biggest factors affecting stopping distance - particularly in adverse weather :soap:

Gareth
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Re: Blimey it's quiet...

Postby Gareth » Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:07 am

GTR1400MAN wrote:if it became law tomorrow just how many new tyres would need to be purchased?

Assuming you mean winter tyres, one set is enough; most, if not all, all season tyres are appropriate for use in jurisdictions where winter tyres are a legal requirement for part of the year.

If you have a 'normal' car, by which I mean not the 'sportier' models in a range, and haven't chosen optional larger wheels, then you should be able to find all season tyres in the correct size. They might not be in as high a speed rating, but they will have high enough speed rating to be legal for use throughout the UK.
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...


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