The EU - Leave or Remain?

[jont-]

I'll just leave this here....

[TheInsanity1234]

Afraid I'll be voting remain.

I despise the EU, but I feel that being a member, we'll have a better chance of improving it and changing things, as it's much easier to change things from internally.

As Akirk has said, I'm actually pissed off by the fact we're doing the referendum, because now it removes our ability to leave in the future so we've now lost that bargaining ability (or should I say ability to threaten the leave).

Also, it rather amuses me that people who are older are saying their opinion should be treated with equal respect to the opinion of young people, because I bet you a fair majority of these old people are going to be dead, or at the very least, senile enough to not realise what's going on around them before the true issues with leaving the EU start to crop up. However, I shall happily allow older people to vote on the issue simply because it wouldn't be a democracy if we blocked a large segment of people from having their say... (Hang on, isn't that what a lot of adults do to younger people, claiming their 'experience should allow them to have a more balanced opinion than the youths'... Hmm )

Regarding the whole experience thing, I'm going to remind people of the discussion we had a few months previously where it was reasonably argued by me that a young person can have far more experience of the world than older people, simply because of the life experiences they've been through. Someone who has travelled to all the nations of the world before 25 is going to be a fair bit more experienced than a 70 year old who has only ever travelled within the UK.

Here ends my contribution.

[akirk]

Afraid I'll be voting remain.

I despise the EU, but I feel that being a member, we'll have a better chance of improving it and changing things, as it's much easier to change things from internally.

As Akirk has said, I'm actually pissed off by the fact we're doing the referendum, because now it removes our ability to leave in the future so we've now lost that bargaining ability (or should I say ability to threaten the leave).

Also, it rather amuses me that people who are older are saying their opinion should be treated with equal respect to the opinion of young people, because I bet you a fair majority of these old people are going to be dead, or at the very least, senile enough to not realise what's going on around them before the true issues with leaving the EU start to crop up. However, I shall happily allow older people to vote on the issue simply because it wouldn't be a democracy if we blocked a large segment of people from having their say... (Hang on, isn't that what a lot of adults do to younger people, claiming their 'experience should allow them to have a more balanced opinion than the youths'... Hmm )

Regarding the whole experience thing, I'm going to remind people of the discussion we had a few months previously where it was reasonably argued by me that a young person can have far more experience of the world than older people, simply because of the life experiences they've been through. Someone who has travelled to all the nations of the world before 25 is going to be a fair bit more experienced than a 70 year old who has only ever travelled within the UK.

Here ends my contribution.

All very valid points...

...but you are still wrong

Alasdair

[StressedDave]

I despise the EU, but I feel that being a member, we'll have a better chance of improving it and changing things, as it's much easier to change things from internally.

If only we had any power to do that - we have a single vote so can be outgunned by the French and Germans (or indeed a couple of the recent accession states).

It may be worth reading http://hurryupharry.org/2016/06/20/why- ... n-johnson/ depending on your view of propaganda.

Also, it rather amuses me that people who are older are saying their opinion should be treated with equal respect to the opinion of young people, because I bet you a fair majority of these old people are going to be dead, or at the very least, senile enough to not realise what's going on around them before the true issues with leaving the EU start to crop up. However, I shall happily allow older people to vote on the issue simply because it wouldn't be a democracy if we blocked a large segment of people from having their say... (Hang on, isn't that what a lot of adults do to younger people, claiming their 'experience should allow them to have a more balanced opinion than the youths'... Hmm )

But those old people have seen quite a lot and will hopefully be there to stop the 18 year olds who know everything already (and haven't started to forget stuff) from ballsing the whole thing up in the first place.

Regarding the whole experience thing, I'm going to remind people of the discussion we had a few months previously where it was reasonably argued by me that a young person can have far more experience of the world than older people, simply because of the life experiences they've been through. Someone who has travelled to all the nations of the world before 25 is going to be a fair bit more experienced than a 70 year old who has only ever travelled within the UK.

Experienced of what though? Spending 3 months (I guess) per nation isn't experience, it's just backpacking. And spending time in Thailand is hardly the sort of experience you might want in terms of having an opinion on democracy.

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

At what age would you propose to introduce this compulsory disenfranchisement? 70, 60, 50 ...?

Various deprecated regimes have tried such things based on race, religion, colour of skin etc. in the past. Generally they're not perceived as particularly desirable in today's more democratic times

[Strangely Brown]

Afraid I'll be voting remain.

I despise the EU, but I feel that being a member, we'll have a better chance of improving it and changing things, as it's much easier to change things from internally.

You despise it, yet you want to remain part of it. That's just perverse.

Surely if you despise it then the sensible thing to do is leave it. Many EU insiders, with far more knowledge of EU internals than anyone here, have stated openly that the institution is unreformable, and you're not going to change it with one vote anyway.

I presume that if we were not already a member you would not wish to join it? Why would you if you despise it? So, if you wouldn't join it, then why not just leave it?

[jont-]

You despise it, yet you want to remain part of it. That's just perverse.

Sounds like quite a few members attitudes towards the IAM at the moment given the other threads on here

[Rolyan]

Afraid I'll be voting remain.

I despise the EU, but I feel that being a member, we'll have a better chance of improving it and changing things, as it's much easier to change things from internally.

As Akirk has said, I'm actually pissed off by the fact we're doing the referendum, because now it removes our ability to leave in the future so we've now lost that bargaining ability (or should I say ability to threaten the leave).

Also, it rather amuses me that people who are older are saying their opinion should be treated with equal respect to the opinion of young people, because I bet you a fair majority of these old people are going to be dead, or at the very least, senile enough to not realise what's going on around them before the true issues with leaving the EU start to crop up. However, I shall happily allow older people to vote on the issue simply because it wouldn't be a democracy if we blocked a large segment of people from having their say... (Hang on, isn't that what a lot of adults do to younger people, claiming their 'experience should allow them to have a more balanced opinion than the youths'... Hmm )

Regarding the whole experience thing, I'm going to remind people of the discussion we had a few months previously where it was reasonably argued by me that a young person can have far more experience of the world than older people, simply because of the life experiences they've been through. Someone who has travelled to all the nations of the world before 25 is going to be a fair bit more experienced than a 70 year old who has only ever travelled within the UK.

Here ends my contribution.

Do me a favour please; sticky this in your smartphone or other suitable device and come back and read it in 30 years time.

[Rolyan]

You despise it, yet you want to remain part of it. That's just perverse.

Sounds like quite a few members attitudes towards the IAM at the moment given the other threads on here

I know many observers and group officials who are disapointed with the hierarchical, uncommunicative and secretive nature of the IAM senior management team, and all that entails including poorly run projects and disgruntled members. But I genuinely don't know a single one that despises the IAM.

[Keithrm]

Out please, but the kids with all their world experience will keep us in. I live in Northumberland I have just found out in a couple of years I will be living
in EU district 556, no England either just EU district 556...it's got a nice easy ring to it and when I write to my brother in law who lives in France it will be EU district 971, no France either, lovely...