ChristianAB wrote:Yeah, deja-vu...Thread drift or rather thread poisoning.
So (sigh) it goes like this: someone makes a point which looks reasonable. Rolyan disagree. a discussion then ensues. Invariably, that someone tries to argue his/her corner, oblivious to the fact that Rolyan is not, in actual fact, providing evidence for his own position. But by then it's too late: Rolyan is being either misunderstood or dismissed (victimised) and we have all lost the will to live.
So, here is the solution: just consider Rolyan's supporting evidence for his positions and If you are not convinced, just agree to disagree and move on. The key lesson here is that there does not need to be a consensus.
For example, a few pages ago, I could have been interested in learning more about that Bell curve that Rolyan mentioned, and how such a concept could possibly apply to something with as many dimensions as driving. But that would have been a waste of time. Instead, much better to consider his point of view and then to simply and respectfully disagree with his opinion, saving a few pages of this thread in the process. Remember, no need for a consensus.
Anyhow. Back to the topic. It started along the lines of : Adapt the roads to the drivers or the adapt the drivers to the roads? Then Alasdair made the point that in this case, adapting the roads is likely to be a quick fix for the symptoms of an underlying issue specific to elderly drivers. After that, Alasdair and Rolyan disagreed and the thread went pear-shaped.
Unfortunately, it seems that in this day and age, driver improvement is almost always going to be the least preferred option. If we accept that most likely the roads will have to adapt with slower maximum speeds, supposedly easier junctions,... Then the consequence is a vicious circle: drivers will be even less competent on average, which will lead to even more dumbing down of the roads layout. But only up to a point.
I've accepted that this forum is not the place for my preferred debate. No problem with that. But you are being unfair and a little offensive in your summary of me and my position.
You say that someone makes a point and I disagree. I honestly thought that was the point of a forum. I've ALWAYS been extremely careful to point out that I respect the other persons position, but that I am simply giving my position. I also always point out that they are just my opinions.
You say that I don't provide evidence. What do you mean. I explain why I hold that opinion. In this case, I've explained that I beleI've that in a large group of motorists, the majority are competent (legal definition) but that there is massive variation within that group, and in my opnion it is not unreasonable to ensure that road design accomodated that variation. I made it very clear that I am not talking about incompetent drivers, or those unable to cope on the roads.
You said that you wanted to know more about the bell curve and represent the failure to discuss it as my fault. Yet you never expressed an interest in it. You never said you wanted to know more. You didn't post on it, or even send a pm. The only person who commented was Alasdair, and we had a couple of lines on it.
Because of my personal circumstances I have time to take part in these discussions, and I have done so honestly and respectfully. I have always acknowledged the other person's position; I would suggest I do so much more than many others on here who often seem to suggest that it's their way or the highway. I'm the first person to acknowledge that we all hold different persons, and I'm always the first to suggest that we can agree to disagree. I always explain why I hold my opinion and I always consider the other opinions on here.
You appear to have an issue with me and I say that simply because of the way you have misrepresented me. I was enjoying it (and learning from it) and I'm surprised at the way it's turned personal, which was certainly never my intention. I am a little dumbfounded as to the antagonism expressed by some. However, I remember being in the cub scouts, and once on a Church Parade, my dear departed Papa turned to a neighbour and said "look at that, everyone is out of step apart from our Rolyan". So I acknowledge that perhaps I should not be marching in these parades.