80mph on the motorway as bad as drink driving

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exportmanuk
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Re: 80mph on the motorway as bad as drink driving

Postby exportmanuk » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:01 pm

jont- wrote:Hope none of the IAM management ever drive on the continent.

I think they all use public transport :hit:
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GTR1400MAN
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Re: 80mph on the motorway as bad as drink driving

Postby GTR1400MAN » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:39 pm

Ohlins wrote:I prefer the term "appropriate speed". This nuance matters if we want to bring more riders into the fold; we need communications that engage non-members effectively. Otherwise, the IAM will become like BRAKE: a lobbying organisation (resulting in fewer people learning advanced skills to enhance their safety).

And it's crazy to argue that doing 80 mph on the motorway is like drink-driving or being behind the wheel under the influence of drugs. It damages the IAM's credibility, which damages recruitment.

Oh, I get where you are coming from. I regularly posted here and elsewhere that somewhere the last 15-20 years the IAM changed from an organisation promoting excellence in driving/riding for enthusiasts, to a political lobbying road safety organisation. The later was always part of it, just not the main focus.
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sussex2
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Re: 80mph on the motorway as bad as drink driving

Postby sussex2 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:26 am

I have always thought of the IAM as being somewhat fuddy duddy. I can't think of the organisation without getting a slight whiff of moth balls.

Ohlins
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Re: 80mph on the motorway as bad as drink driving

Postby Ohlins » Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:36 am

IME, mothballs were more of an issue with the odd car group (and may have improved since my car experience years ago). But bike groups are, thankfully, more real-world and better.

Motorcycling culture is another world compared to car driving (except HPC). A minor error in a car often results in a dent or just dented pride. But a minor error on the bike can result in incredibly serious injury, and I expect it’s why riders are generally more pragmatic.

Ohlins
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Re: 80mph on the motorway as bad as drink driving

Postby Ohlins » Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:45 am

WhoseGeneration wrote:OP, forget it, long ago I was suggesting that the IAM was becoming only interested in its survival and the jobs at HQ. This, of course, means following the dominant politics of the day.


As an IAM member, I too would like to see it not only survive but thrive. And it means we need a well-staffed HQ to do a good job. What's more, it means the organisation needs healthy membership numbers and must avoid PR that's off-putting for potential new members.

People join the IAM to enhance their driving or riding skills. It's how you become a member. If you want to lobby the government about speed, then you'd instead join BRAKE. And IAM Roadsmart needs to maintain a brand that's distinct from BRAKE; organisations with an indistinct brand lose members.

It does look like the IAM is following the politics of the day, but I'm baffled why. Does it receive some government funding?

kfae8959
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Re: 80mph on the motorway as bad as drink driving

Postby kfae8959 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:52 pm

We've recently appointed a new Senior Communications Executive, I think?

David

hray
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Re: 80mph on the motorway as bad as drink driving

Postby hray » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:34 pm

This messagaing does elicit a groan. I saw another one a few weeks back where, similarly, they claimed that pressing a button on Apple CarPlay, or using Siri to dictate a message, was more dangerous than driving whilst under the influence. How they come to that conclusion bewilders me. If you're drink/drug driving, you're intoxicated for your whole drive, there's no switching it on or off. I would only interact with my multimedia system when a) stationary or b) traveling on a straight, clear road free from hazards. Even then, my eyes would only be off the road ahead for around a second, the same as if I was checking my mirrors. I truly cannot imagine what study they must have performed to establish the conclusion that the two are comparable.
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Horse
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Re: 80mph on the motorway as bad as drink driving

Postby Horse » Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:54 pm

hray wrote:I truly cannot imagine what study they must have performed to establish the conclusion that the two are comparable.


https://www.iamroadsmart.com/campaign-p ... fotainment

Links to more detail:

https://iamwebsite.blob.core.windows.ne ... d873495c_2
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

hray
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Re: 80mph on the motorway as bad as drink driving

Postby hray » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:26 pm

Horse wrote:
hray wrote:I truly cannot imagine what study they must have performed to establish the conclusion that the two are comparable.


https://www.iamroadsmart.com/campaign-p ... fotainment

Links to more detail:

https://iamwebsite.blob.core.windows.ne ... d873495c_2


Nice one. Cheers for digging that out, I only recalled seeing it on the organization's Facebook page. That's an interesting read, and I now understand why they obtained the results they did. I fundamentally disagree with the methodology used in that study.

For the purposes of this study they've taken what could be argued as 'worst-case' interaction; searching for and selecting a single specific song through Spotify via search. This is probably the most interaction intensive user journey possible within the CarPlay system, and I would argue by no means 'average'. From my purely anecdotal and totally unreliable experience, most interactions with CarPlay seem to be single click events, such as clicking 'Thanks' for roadworks warnings on Waze, or selecting to skip an audio track. Their selection of interaction was, in my opinion, not representative of the typical usage of CarPlay / Android Auto. I'll put that aside for a moment and accept their choice, however.

My main criticism with the methodology stems from the fact that the 'stimulus events' that participants were required to react to happened at set times, specifically just after participants were instructed to select a new audio track, when the researchers knew that participants would be distracted. By limiting their stimuli to these time-frames, their results are for all intents and purposes only reflective of a driver who is CONSTANTLY interacting with their infotainment system at all times during their drive, never devoting full attention to the road. In the real world, we don't change song immediately when instructed to by a researcher, we would choose a suitable moment to undertake such a task when we assessed hazards to be at a minimum. Equally, hazards wouldn't magically only occur during the time that we were interacting with those systems, they would be spaced out throughout our drive.

I feel that a more accurate methodology would be to instruct participants that they were required to (sticking with their choice of interaction) select a specific song on two occasions OF THEIR CHOICE throughout a 15 minute simulated drive. The four stimuli would then appear AT RANDOM TIMES throughout that 15 minute drive, just as a natural hazard would. There would of course be an overwhelming chance that the participant was not currently interacting with the system, and thus the results would be similar to their control drive, only differing where a participant unfortunately selected to interact with their system at the same time a stimulus appeared.

This change in methodology would incorporate the fact that an intoxicated driver is intoxicated and has their reaction times impacted throughout the whole period of their drive, whilst individuals interacting with CarPlay / Android Auto are only impared for the (hopefully) few seconds they are interacting with the system, with no deviation from control for the remainder of the drive.
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Horse
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Re: 80mph on the motorway as bad as drink driving

Postby Horse » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:10 pm

hray wrote:For the purposes of this study they've taken what could be argued as 'worst-case' interaction; searching for and selecting a single specific song through Spotify via search.


Sadly, though, its what some people do.

https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/14792 ... -children/

A LORRY driver has admitted killing four people from the same family on the A34 after ploughing into four stationary cars while changing the music on his mobile phone.

The 30-year-old was distracted for seven seconds by his mobile phone in the moments leading up to the concertina crash which was captured in harrowing dash cam footage.


Whether or not it was, he obviously thought it was a good idea to look away at that time, for seven seconds.

I can see what you mean about the trial design, but haven't they just ensured that those 'seven seconds' happen?

as clicking 'Thanks' for roadworks warnings on Waze,


Is there a benefit from this? Otherwise, it seems like an unnecessary distraction, even if only for a few moments.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.


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