Speed limiters

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vanman
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Speed limiters

Postby vanman » Thu Dec 30, 2021 8:44 pm

This sort of got under my radar, it is a report from the Mirror however....

10. Speed limiters in new cars
New cars will be fitted with speed limiters from July 6, 2022 to improve road safety.

The Intelligent Speed Assistance (ISA) black boxes will use GPS to work out what the speed limit is and will then ensure the car doesn't break it.

A new regulation will be imposed by the European Commission in the General Safety Regulation having been approved by the European Parliament in 2019.

ISAs will be mandatory for all new models given 'type approval' from 6 July. This means any new car brought to market from that date, rather than new cars already in production.

"Improve road safety"!

I would never buy a new car in any case, but it will limit the second market for me in five to ten years time.

waremark
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Re: Speed limiters

Postby waremark » Thu Dec 30, 2021 10:32 pm

At this stage) the requirements have not been set out in detail (unless something has happened very recently of which I am not aware. However, it is clear that at the introduction of the requirement the systems will be capable of being switched off, and it is likely that if you turn them off they will stay off until or unless you turn them on again.

It is fairly certain that a mandatory system cannot yet be fit for purpose in the UK - in the several cars I have driven with a speed limit display, none of them are sufficiently accurate to be usable. There are all sorts of reasons why they are sometimes wrong - the database is out of date, they miss signs, they read signs intended for an adjacent or side road, or the signs themselves are wrong (mischievous folk sometimes turn speed limit signs round, and the authorities leave them wrong for many months). It would be a disaster to have the system incorrectly think the speed limit has reduced from say 60 to 30 while other traffic continues at (or over) 60.

I liked the implementation in a new BMW I borrowed. There was a mode where you could set a margin over the speed limit, and rather than changing the cruise control automatically when the speed limit changed it showed the new speed limit on the dash slightly before you got to it, and you could change the cruise control to the new limit with a single touch of a button on the steering wheel. I found that useful, whereas on my recent model Jaguar if you use ISA it changes the cruise control automatically and with no opportunity to set a margin over the (displayed) limit. That is not usable.

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jcochrane
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Re: Speed limiters

Postby jcochrane » Thu Dec 30, 2021 10:41 pm

Just to add Mark, in my car I often spot a speed limit sign but the car's camera misses it all together.

martine
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Re: Speed limiters

Postby martine » Fri Dec 31, 2021 10:20 am

The proposal includes a way of over-riding the limit by pressing firmly on the accelerator. I believe if you switch it off, it will come back on again when the engine is started.

As has been said I can't see it being useable due to some poor signage (if it reads signs) or an out of date database (if it uses GPS).
Martin - Bristol Advanced Motorists: IMI National Observer, Group Secretary, Masters (dist), DSA: ADI, Fleet, RoSPA (Dip)

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Horse
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Re: Speed limiters

Postby Horse » Fri Dec 31, 2021 11:18 am

martine wrote:The proposal includes a way of over-riding the limit by pressing firmly on the accelerator. I believe if you switch it off, it will come back on again when the engine is started.

As has been said I can't see it being useable due to some poor signage (if it reads signs) or an out of date database (if it uses GPS).


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_ ... ad_Traffic

One of the fundamental principles of the Convention has been the concept that a driver is always fully in control and responsible for the behavior of a vehicle in traffic.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

waremark
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Re: Speed limiters

Postby waremark » Fri Dec 31, 2021 11:48 am

Horse wrote:
martine wrote:The proposal includes a way of over-riding the limit by pressing firmly on the accelerator. I believe if you switch it off, it will come back on again when the engine is started.

As has been said I can't see it being useable due to some poor signage (if it reads signs) or an out of date database (if it uses GPS).


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_ ... ad_Traffic

One of the fundamental principles of the Convention has been the concept that a driver is always fully in control and responsible for the behavior of a vehicle in traffic.

Agreed in 1968. How far have we got towards international standards for automated driving systems?

waremark
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Re: Speed limiters

Postby waremark » Fri Dec 31, 2021 11:56 am

martine wrote:The proposal includes a way of over-riding the limit by pressing firmly on the accelerator. I believe if you switch it off, it will come back on again when the engine is started.

As has been said I can't see it being useable due to some poor signage (if it reads signs) or an out of date database (if it uses GPS).

As I said earlier I don't think the proposal contains any detail. The ability to override by using kickdown was used in some pilot limiter schemes and might get you out of trouble in the middle of a badly judged overtake but would not be a solution when the system incorrectly read a 30 in a national.

The manuals I have read say the systems use both database and camera - without explaining how they blend the two information sources.

martine
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Re: Speed limiters

Postby martine » Fri Dec 31, 2021 12:27 pm

waremark wrote:...but would not be a solution when the system incorrectly read a 30 in a national.

Why not?
Martin - Bristol Advanced Motorists: IMI National Observer, Group Secretary, Masters (dist), DSA: ADI, Fleet, RoSPA (Dip)

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Horse
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Re: Speed limiters

Postby Horse » Fri Dec 31, 2021 12:40 pm

waremark wrote:
Horse wrote:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_ ... ad_Traffic

One of the fundamental principles of the Convention has been the concept that a driver is always fully in control and responsible for the behavior of a vehicle in traffic.

Agreed in 1968. How far have we got towards international standards for automated driving systems?


Implications discussed in the wiki page.

As far as 'standards' goes, I guess it would be best to have a single standard.

However, Google finds: (possibly duplicates)

https://www.trl.co.uk/publications/auto ... ess-future
Automation in transport - Leading the UK to a driverless future

https://warwick.ac.uk/newsandevents/pre ... al_safety/
First International safety standard for fully automated driving systems has been published

https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... tem-safety
Framework for Automated Driving System Safety

https://www.themanufacturer.com/article ... published/
First International safety standard for fully automated driving systems published

https://www.trl.co.uk/solutions/safety- ... ogy-trials
Safety Cases for Automated Vehicle Technology Trials

https://trl.co.uk/projects/move-uk-conn ... as-systems
MOVE_UK – Connected Validation of Advanced Driver Assistance Systems (ADAS) Systems


So no shortage of work going on!
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

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Strangely Brown
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Re: Speed limiters

Postby Strangely Brown » Fri Dec 31, 2021 3:35 pm

martine wrote:
waremark wrote:...but would not be a solution when the system incorrectly read a 30 in a national.

Why not?


What good is constant WOT when trying to drive at or up to a steady(ish) 60 or 70?


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