Hello all

A good place to post when you join - it is a good idea to post here first so that people know something about you, and you will get a nice welcome.
User avatar
RiK
Posts: 292
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:32 pm
Location: Gloucestershire..
Contact:

Re: Hello all

Postby RiK » Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:57 am

Hi Stu, welcome aboard!

Sorry to hear that your introduction to the world of advanced driving has been quite what you'd expected, but please don't give up, there's always more to learn, and you might just find that when things begin to 'click' you'll start to enjoy your driving a lot more. That was a certainly the case for me.

Where do you live? I'm an observer with the Bristol group and we hold a lot of driving events through the year, including regular 'three-in-a-car' events for mutual support and feedback, and our popular 'club sunday' social driving meet ups are always a lot of fun. As an IAM member you'd be very welcome to join us for a drive any time!
Richard Olpin: Bristol IAM: Training Officer, IAM: Masters (Dist), IMI National Observer, LOA. Gloucestershire Constabulary SC6240.

User avatar
GTR1400MAN
Posts: 2209
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: Hello all

Postby GTR1400MAN » Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:33 am

Hi StuBeeDoo. Welcome to the forum and the world of advanced driving.

I really hate the word progress and try to avoid its use when out with my Associates. What I would say is that if you get all the aspects of driving to the system working correctly your pace/speed/progress will naturally rise. The important point though is this will be done safely. This is the complete opposite to going out with the aim to drive fast.

Did you ever have a demo drive to show you what was expected?

I too would pick up on your comments regarding unfamiliar roads. The system allows you to drive the same wherever you are. Remember your familiar road is never the same everytime you drive it.

Please don't give up. Ask your group if you could have some further sessions, maybe with another observer specialising in automatics. Many think the test is easier in an auto, but it is just different. Being able to take advantage of the auto's features is important though.

What do you drive. I'm hoping from your username you are going to tell me it is a Subaru Imprezza ... but I don't think they have an auto version :)
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

User avatar
Horse
Posts: 3557
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:20 am

Re: Hello all

Postby Horse » Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:51 am

GTR1400MAN wrote: your pace/speed/progress will naturally rise


It shouldn't, any increase in speed should be a conscious decision. What improved forward planning can enable is the opportunity to identify those locations where you might be able to go faster - or should go slower.

The 'surprise horizon' doesn't change just because your driving is systematic.

Also, there's no denying that increasing speed will extend reaction time and can substantially extend braking distances.

Very few people have, with hindsight, crashed too slowly.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

User avatar
jont-
Posts: 1522
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:12 am
Location: Herefordshire

Re: Hello all

Postby jont- » Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:00 am

Horse wrote:Also, there's no denying that increasing speed will extend reaction time and can substantially extend braking distances.

Eh? Speed shouldn't make any difference to reaction time. Will make a difference to reaction /distance/.
If I'm going quickly I'm more likely to react faster than if I'm nearly falling asleep of tedium in an unreasonably low speed limit area.

User avatar
Horse
Posts: 3557
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:20 am

Re: Hello all

Postby Horse » Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:16 pm

Correct. Reaction time remains the same (although it can vary IYSWIM), but the distance covered in that time will extend.

Boredom? Perhaps you need to improve your self-awareness ;)
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

User avatar
Horse
Posts: 3557
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:20 am

Re: Hello all

Postby Horse » Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:03 pm

Visual Expert has a lot of interesting articles, including:

https://www.visualexpert.com/Resources/ ... ntime.html
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

User avatar
GTR1400MAN
Posts: 2209
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: Hello all

Postby GTR1400MAN » Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:01 pm

Horse wrote:
GTR1400MAN wrote: your pace/speed/progress will naturally rise


It shouldn't, any increase in speed should be a conscious decision.

Well as you snipped that bit off the front of my quote ;)

What I clearly said was "if you get all the aspects of driving to the system working correctly". So conscious decision it is. The majority of riders/drivers who take the course are not initially making conscious decisions on speed. Generally they just amble along (many bike riders thinking they are fast, when they are just fast in all the wrong places :( ) Once they start observing and planning via the system, they actually think about the speed they can safely do.
Last edited by GTR1400MAN on Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

hir
Posts: 590
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:16 pm

Re: Hello all

Postby hir » Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:24 pm

GTR1400MAN wrote:
Horse wrote:
GTR1400MAN wrote: your pace/speed/progress will naturally rise


It shouldn't, any increase in speed should be a conscious decision.

Well as you snipped that bit off the front of my quote ;)

What I clearly said was "if you get all the aspects of driving to the system working correctly". So conscious decision it is. The majority of riders/drivers who take the course are not initially making conscious decisions on speed. Generally they just amble along (many bike riders thinking they are fast, when they are just fast in all the wrong places :( ) Once they start observing and planning via the system, they actually think about the speed they can safely do.


Exactly right.

The 4 S's = Safe, Systematic, Smooth and Sparkle (Speed), get the first three right and the fourth will, if you so choose, follow.

hir
Posts: 590
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:16 pm

Re: Hello all

Postby hir » Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:39 pm

StuBeeDoo wrote:...

I didn't mention above, but on my pre-test the observer also felt I should have been driving faster at one point. This was on an unclassified road that I'm not familiar with, with narrow sections, muddy patches at field entrances and blind bends/corners. It was NSL, and I was driving at 40-45mph. The observer on that day said I should have been travelling at nearer 50-55. .....But he knows that road, I didn't.



The above noted quote may be indicating a lack of communication or misunderstanding between the observer and OP.

One of the failings of new associates is a lack of variation in pace. The "constant speed syndrome" is a mindset that is commonly found in most drivers; driving at 40-45mph when they could, safely, be driving at 50-55mph, AND, driving at 40-45mph when they should be driving at 30-35mph. I encourage associates not to be afraid to go slowly when necessary and to "get on with it" when it's safe to do so. I very much doubt that an observer would be suggesting driving at a constant 50-55mph on the road that the OP has described. Why would he suggest driving at 50-55mph through a "blind bend"? Which is what the OP implies. He wouldn't. It is also unlikely that an observer would suggest driving at a speed that was not safe for the circumstances. So, in all probability the observer was indicating a piece of road, albeit a relatively short section perhaps, where 50-55 would have been perfectly safe and appropriate for an advanced driver. Advanced driving is quite demanding in that it requires a constant assessment of the road ahead and and a constant assessment of the appropriate speed for that piece of road; unlike a driver attuned to the "constant speed syndrome" who is unlikely to be thinking too much about hazards and appropriate speed for the conditions.

If my assessment is correct then the misunderstanding is entirely the fault of the observer, NOT the OP.

As Jont has already indicated, knowledge of the road ("he knows that road") is irrelevant when determining a safe and appropriate speed for the advanced driver. You must ALWAYS drive based upon what you can see, NEVER on what you know.

I suspect that this is yet another example of communication failure on the part of the observer.

hir
Posts: 590
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:16 pm

Re: Hello all

Postby hir » Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:54 pm

StuBeeDoo wrote:... Driving briskly, in an IAM sense, was/is not what I'm about. I'm not a slow-coach by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm not interested in an extra 5mph around corners or roundabouts - particularly if it means throwing my passengers around the car.



Again, I sense that your observer hasn't explained himself particularly well.

The purpose of straight-lining roundabouts (I think you referred to it as trimming roundabouts) is intended, inter alia, to avoid "throwing your passengers around the car". A car is at its most stable when travelling in a straight line at a constant speed, something that straight-lining roundabouts is designed to achieve. If you can maintain a constant speed and a straight-line it obviates the need for two of the three driving inputs, viz. braking and steering, hence a smoother transition through the roundabout. What was your observer thinking!!! :o


Return to “Introductions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 21 guests