'Highest'?

Topics relating to Advanced Driving on anything that is not a car or bike, from lorries to vans, buses to hovercrafts...
TheInsanity1234
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Re: 'Highest'?

Postby TheInsanity1234 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:31 pm

I would hope that, if you ask all these three organisations, their universal response is something along the lines of: "Our highest standards are common to all three courses," as in, a driver of a certain ability could expect to be examined by any of the three providers, and the grade they would be awarded is consistent across the three awarding bodies.

Much like having a GCSE qualification, it can be awarded by any one of the examination boards (AQA, OCR, Pearson), but your grade B is a grade B, regardless of the awarding body, because they have universally agreed standards on what a 'B grade' is.

The real problem probably lies in the fact the awarding bodies won't be 100% consistent, because whilst you can judge a driver by objective standards, I think when you're in the realms of "highest civilian standard," there is some subjectivity involved, and thus individual examiners may award different grades to the same driver, on the same route in similar conditions.

Which just leads back to the initial question of "What is the highest standard a civilian driver could achieve?"

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Horse
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Re: 'Highest'?

Postby Horse » Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:52 pm

Oh, another:

"the most complete advanced driving course available for civilian drivers"
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

crr003
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Re: 'Highest'?

Postby crr003 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:28 pm

Horse wrote:Oh, another:

"the most complete advanced driving course available for civilian drivers"

It might have been when it was written?
It's hardly the biggest fib in the world to claim. I doubt some of these organisations have enough staff to be continually assessing their propaganda. Why would they bother saying "the second or maybe third most complete advanced driving course available for civilian drivers"?

Pay the money, try them all. You might even get the same examiner.

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Horse
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Re: 'Highest'?

Postby Horse » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:32 pm

crr003 wrote: You might even get the same examiner.


Quite likely.

The irony, of course, is how some police driving schools see themselves as superior to others (caveat: I'm a bit out of touch, but would expect it's continued).
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

waremark
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Re: 'Highest'?

Postby waremark » Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:38 pm

TheInsanity1234 wrote:I would hope that, if you ask all these three organisations, their universal response is something along the lines of: "Our highest standards are common to all three courses," as in, a driver of a certain ability could expect to be examined by any of the three providers, and the grade they would be awarded is consistent across the three awarding bodies.

Well, I think that any drive which gets a distinction at IAM Masters would also get a Rospa Gold. I don' think the reverse is true, IAM Masters Distinction is a more demanding level than Rospa Gold. I have never taken a Diamond test, but I believe the criteria and marking style are both different, in which case those achieving a top score in one type of test would not necessarily do so in the other.

As to Horse's challenge on the relevance of the skills required to achieve any of these levels, I am not sure about 'relevant to what?' There are many safe drivers who have not achieved such levels. Those of us who pursue driving to a high standard do so as a hobby, for the challenge of it, and generally for our own satisfaction. Or am I wrong? Tell me.

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Strangely Brown
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Re: 'Highest'?

Postby Strangely Brown » Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:03 pm

waremark wrote:
TheInsanity1234 wrote:I would hope that, if you ask all these three organisations, their universal response is something along the lines of: "Our highest standards are common to all three courses," as in, a driver of a certain ability could expect to be examined by any of the three providers, and the grade they would be awarded is consistent across the three awarding bodies.

Well, I think that any drive which gets a distinction at IAM Masters would also get a Rospa Gold. I don' think the reverse is true, IAM Masters Distinction is a more demanding level than Rospa Gold. I have never taken a Diamond test, but I believe the criteria and marking style are both different, in which case those achieving a top score in one type of test would not necessarily do so in the other.

As to Horse's challenge on the relevance of the skills required to achieve any of these levels, I am not sure about 'relevant to what?' There are many safe drivers who have not achieved such levels. Those of us who pursue driving to a high standard do so as a hobby, for the challenge of it, and generally for our own satisfaction. Or am I wrong? Tell me.


You are quite right, Mark. I would say that every one of those tests has slightly different marking criteria and, therefore, slightly different hoops through which one would have to jump in order to achieve the top marks. Some will be "easier" than others. i.e. some will require more "effort" to attain the "top" grade.

By contrast, another option is not a test at all but a course, after which one pursues one's own path to personal "perfection" with the aid of the peer group and assessments against a published standard. It is mercifully free of the dogma and baggage often found in the others.
Last edited by Strangely Brown on Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Horse
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Re: 'Highest'?

Postby Horse » Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:24 pm

waremark wrote:As to Horse's challenge on the relevance of the skills required to achieve any of these levels, I am not sure about 'relevant to what?'


Relevant to modern roads (congested, many 50 limits, miles of double white lines, convoys of vehicles travelling just below the limit, etc.) and largely disinterested and distracted drivers who don't see driving as a skill to develop.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

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Strangely Brown
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Re: 'Highest'?

Postby Strangely Brown » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:09 pm

Horse wrote:
waremark wrote:As to Horse's challenge on the relevance of the skills required to achieve any of these levels, I am not sure about 'relevant to what?'


Relevant to modern roads (congested, many 50 limits, miles of double white lines, convoys of vehicles travelling just below the limit, etc.) and largely disinterested and distracted drivers who don't see driving as a skill to develop.


There is a relevance in being able to make progress as and when opportunities permit. Maintaining headway and "getting on with it" as opposed to blindly sheeping along.

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Horse
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Re: 'Highest'?

Postby Horse » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:26 pm

Strangely Brown wrote:
Horse wrote:
waremark wrote:As to Horse's challenge on the relevance of the skills required to achieve any of these levels, I am not sure about 'relevant to what?'


Relevant to modern roads (congested, many 50 limits, miles of double white lines, convoys of vehicles travelling just below the limit, etc.) and largely disinterested and distracted drivers who don't see driving as a skill to develop.


There is a relevance in being able to make progress as and when opportunities permit. Maintaining headway and "getting on with it" as opposed to blindly sheeping along.


But relevant to how many people? For most people in their everyday driving, commuting, shopping, etc., or taking the kids to football on a Sunday morning, etc., does 'making progress' really apply?
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

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Strangely Brown
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Re: 'Highest'?

Postby Strangely Brown » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:51 pm

Horse wrote:
Strangely Brown wrote:
Horse wrote:
waremark wrote:As to Horse's challenge on the relevance of the skills required to achieve any of these levels, I am not sure about 'relevant to what?'


Relevant to modern roads (congested, many 50 limits, miles of double white lines, convoys of vehicles travelling just below the limit, etc.) and largely disinterested and distracted drivers who don't see driving as a skill to develop.


There is a relevance in being able to make progress as and when opportunities permit. Maintaining headway and "getting on with it" as opposed to blindly sheeping along.


Yes, there is a difference. But relevant to how many people? For most people in their everyday driving, commuting, shopping, etc., or taking the kids to football on a Sunday morning, etc., does 'making progress' really apply?


If the alternative is sitting behind getting wound up about being the being held up then yes, it can apply. If they can choose for themselves how quickly they wish to go rather than have the person in front do it for them then yes, it can apply.


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