Masternaut in-cab coaching

Technology in driving is becoming more dominant...
StuBeeDoo
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Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:33 am

Masternaut in-cab coaching

Postby StuBeeDoo » Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:46 am

Does anyone here have any experience of this system?

The company I work for has recently had these fitted to all the vans on our multi-drop fleet. The system tracks "harsh" driving (acceleration, braking, cornering) as well as excessive idling and speeding.

Speeding I understand, and I don't have a problem with it being monitored. The excessive idling warning has a habit of kicking-in when stopped, particularly at TTLs (our vehicles don't have Auto Stop-Start for some reason, despite being less than a year old), which is an annoyance. But what really bugs me is that any attempt to pull-away on the slightest incline sends the audible/visual unit right to the top of the scale. To me, this is an unnecessary distraction. Several times already I have been spoken-to with regard to "harsh acceleration".

All of the drivers on the team have been through AA DriveTech (it's a requirement) and several of us have undertaken advanced driving courses of our own volition. Those of us who are advanced are of the belief that the "harsh acceleration" aspect, in particular, is counter to our advanced training in as much as any acceleration beyond a very slow dawdle is penalised. Pulling into moving traffic is a nightmare! If we continue to be judged as "harsh" we will have to undertake retraining, after which further violations will result in misconduct cases.

Anyone able to constructively comment on this, please?

MrToad
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Location: Bristol

Re: Masternaut in-cab coaching

Postby MrToad » Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:20 am

Telematics devices are antithetical to advanced driving. Where a good driver will make a nuanced decision based on the circumstances pertaining at the time, the black box makes a judgement based on an algorithm programmed by a technician who may not even have a licence.

They don't measure what's important, they make important that which can be measured. They are sold by the mendacious and bought by the gullible, because 'something must be done'. If the manager promoting their use is prepared to penalise workers based solely on this then they're a fool.

I'd love to see how evidence from one of these would stand up in a disciplinary procedure.

Jonquirk
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Location: Guildford

Re: Masternaut in-cab coaching

Postby Jonquirk » Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:22 am

Get your manager to demonstrate to you how to pull away on a hill in the approved manner.

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jont-
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Re: Masternaut in-cab coaching

Postby jont- » Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:24 am

MrToad wrote:Telematics devices are antithetical to advanced driving. Where a good driver will make a nuanced decision based on the circumstances pertaining at the time, the black box makes a judgement based on an algorithm programmed by a technician who may not even have a licence.

They don't measure what's important, they make important that which can be measured. They are sold by the mendacious and bought by the gullible, because 'something must be done'. If the manager promoting their use is prepared to penalise workers based solely on this then they're a fool.

I'd love to see how evidence from one of these would stand up in a disciplinary procedure.

Well said. Worse still, I've yet to see any evidence (or even criteria) for how those selling the boxes have decided what acceptable levels of acceleration etc are decided on.

The evidence for disciplinary will be easy - you've been told to follow the box and you haven't. Sadly it won't have anything to do with whether that was unsafe or not.

/grump - I'd like to start penalising people that don't bloody accelerate firmly to get out into small gaps and instead cause needless congestion. Braking/cornering I have marginally more sympathy for measuring, but how can accelerating firmly be unsafe unless you're doing it so harshly you're breaking traction?

hir
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Re: Masternaut in-cab coaching

Postby hir » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:07 pm

MrToad wrote:
They don't measure what's important, they make important that which can be measured. They are sold by the mendacious and bought by the gullible, because 'something must be done'. If the manager promoting their use is prepared to penalise workers based solely on this then they're a fool.




Brilliant! :cheers:

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Horse
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Re: Masternaut in-cab coaching

Postby Horse » Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:01 am

If you believe that an in-cab warning is distracting, formally report it to H&S as a near miss, ideally with supporting evidence on the risks of driver distraction.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

martine
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Re: Masternaut in-cab coaching

Postby martine » Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:06 am

I do Royal Mail van driver training and about half the fleet have what's called a 'Trimble' device fitted. This measures driving smoothness, bleeps and has green, amber and red lights. They don't measure speed.

They are not perfect but are pretty good at encouraging smoother driving. If it bleeps occasionally that's fine but if continued, it will go amber and eventually red - which then get's sent over the internet. Red drivers show on a depot report and if a driver is consistent they get extra training.

Are you offered extra in-cab training?
Martin - Bristol IAM: IMI National Observer, Group Secretary, Masters (dist), DSA: ADI, Fleet, RoSPA (Dip)

StuBeeDoo
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Re: Masternaut in-cab coaching

Postby StuBeeDoo » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:29 am

Martine, that ^^^ sounds similar to Masternaut. Any "red" gets sent over the 'net, in real time, to a computer in the manager's office. Speeding doesn't show-up on the in-cab display, but that gets sent too - it's read off the vehicle's ECU. I agree that the system probably does encourage smoother driving in non-advanced drivers.

We have only had the system a few weeks, so I'm not aware of any extra in-cab training. There are a few drivers who have consistently been "in the red" (there is a graph on our office wall). We have all been given a number to identify our individual performance on the graph, but have been asked not to divulge our number to other drivers (for confidentiality), other than maybe commenting "I'm in the green" etc. As for me, I'm green - despite the harsh acceleration incidents - although I must be honest I have also had a couple of harsh braking.

As long as I stay in the green section of the graph I'm not bothered about the system in general, just the fact that I'm being actively discouraged from accelerating in the correct manner for an advanced driver and because of this I am potentially being a nuisance (hazard??) to other drivers.

mainbeam
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Re: Masternaut in-cab coaching

Postby mainbeam » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:47 am

It appears from your second post that you are not penalised for 'harsh' acceleration and braking as you are doing these and staying 'in the green'. If you accelerate and brake firmly only when it is necessary for safety then you are left with the restriction of not being allowed to use the vehicle to exercise your advanced driving skills in the course of your employment. Ultimately that is the employer's prerogative and reasonable in light of the fact that it does not put its drivers through advanced driving courses, I think.

StuBeeDoo
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Re: Masternaut in-cab coaching

Postby StuBeeDoo » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:05 am

A very valid point re the employer's POV ^^^ there, Mainbeam. However, my point is that to stay "in the green" I frequently during the course of any given shift can't make anywhere near the sort of "progress" that the concept of advanced driving requires...........
StuBeeDoo wrote:............... I'm being actively discouraged from accelerating in the correct manner for an advanced driver and because of this I am potentially being a nuisance (hazard??) to other drivers.


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