Phone use (again )

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jont-
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Phone use (again )

Postby jont- » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:08 am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49320473
I know we've done this before and even had similar research posted, so interesting to see it in the news. Personally I think more legislation is a waste of time since enforcement is none existent, and in any case I'd rather see drivers prosecuted for DWDCA (if that's the problem) instead of another specific offence.

Would it change the behaviour of those on here who admit to hands-free use?

Triquet
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Re: Phone use (again )

Postby Triquet » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:42 am

I think the law of unintended consequences kicks in. Pushing the penalties higher will only increase the tendency of the stupid to text while holding the telephone (I like an old-fashioned word now and then) down below window level to avoid being seen and not even glancing at the road. Thus new penalties may increase the number of accidents. And of course it is DWDCA in its purest form.

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akirk
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Re: Phone use (again )

Postby akirk » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:52 am

I think the biggest issue is the boundaries of technology and how you define / establish what someone is doing...

- if I put my phone on a mount - this proposal would say that I can not use it as it would be a hands-free phone...
- but there is no suggestion of stopping drivers from using the in-car screen and controls
- my car has apple car play - so the phone is mirrored onto the screen... if I use the screen - am I using my phone? or am I using the car?
- it also has siri I can dictate a whatsapp message / I can have it read them to me - no hands involved at all - is that acceptable or not?
- if you want to ban every use of mobile telephony you therefore also have to ban the use of the car radio systems - does that then affect me in my older car which has a simple push-button radio? Does it also stop me using the screen in my sister's XC90 to change the air con temperature - either by pressing the screen / talking to the car to set a new temperature? - no difference in functionality to my using siri to make a phone call - the only difference is the length of conversation - so do you legislate for that?

there is no clarity / distinct lines between technology now - so while it is simple to legislate against hand-held use, it becomes very difficult to legislate against other uses...

Alasdair

Triquet
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Re: Phone use (again )

Postby Triquet » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:09 am

And so many people are now using their phones as satnavs. The inbuilt car satnav (and the ridiculous costs of updates) has become a dead-end of technology. I had the ultimate in DWDCA a couple of years ago while being driven by a colleague who was fiddling with both car satnav and mobile phone satnav at the same time and asking his cowering passenger to "keep an eye on the road". Eek!

martine
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Re: Phone use (again )

Postby martine » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:06 pm

Personally I think a handsfree mobile phone ban would be a good idea but probably impractical to enforce...how would a traffic police know if someone if on the phone, talking to a passenger or even talking to themselves?

I do think there is a big difference in being on a call however and operating other in-car equipment like a radio etc. The former tends to be for minutes of interaction - whereas the latter is seconds and it's entirely up to you when you do it.
Martin - Bristol IAM: IMI National Observer, Group Secretary, Masters (dist), DSA: ADI, Fleet, RoSPA (Dip)

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akirk
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Re: Phone use (again )

Postby akirk » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:09 pm

martine wrote:I do think there is a big difference in being on a call however and operating other in-car equipment like a radio etc. The former tends to be for minutes of interaction - whereas the latter is seconds and it's entirely up to you when you do it.


I agree - but I don't think that you can legislate for the difference

Alasdair

martine
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Re: Phone use (again )

Postby martine » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:34 pm

akirk wrote:I agree - but I don't think that you can legislate for the difference

I'm no legal expert (as you know!) but can't it be worded to: ban mobile phone use handheld or handsfree?

I appreciate there may be some anomalies but if you're using your phone (by apple car play or whatever) you're in trouble basically?
Martin - Bristol IAM: IMI National Observer, Group Secretary, Masters (dist), DSA: ADI, Fleet, RoSPA (Dip)

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akirk
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Re: Phone use (again )

Postby akirk » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:07 pm

martine wrote:
akirk wrote:I agree - but I don't think that you can legislate for the difference

I'm no legal expert (as you know!) but can't it be worded to: ban mobile phone use handheld or handsfree?

I appreciate there may be some anomalies but if you're using your phone (by apple car play or whatever) you're in trouble basically?


but that is the problem...
if my phone is in the boot - and wirelessly talking to the head unit to push apple car play onto the head unit - am I using the phone or the head unit...
technically I am using the head unit as all my interaction is with the head unit - assuming I push buttons on it as that is a physical interaction - but if I decide to reply to a whatsapp message, or use siri then that is my talking to the phone through the headunit, and I am now interacting with the phone...

whole thing is a nonsense - it is dreamed up by those who are clearly not very perceptive - the reality is that no-one cares what you do in a car if it has zero effect on your driving - it is the driving deterioration that is of concern and that can already be tackled by current legislation - it is just much harder to bring to court / prove - and therefore the mobile phone is seen as an easy target...

Alasdair

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Strangely Brown
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Re: Phone use (again )

Postby Strangely Brown » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:02 pm

The only reason that hand-held mobile use is illegal and hands-free is not is because one can be policed and the and the other cannot (let alone defined), otherwise they would both be banned. Any law that cannot be enforced is bad law.

Holding the phone is but a small part of the problem as it is the conversation itself that is the real distraction.

This is an excellent read. Especially if you think you are capable of using hands-free safely.
Sleights of Mind

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Phone use (again )

Postby GTR1400MAN » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:03 pm

Phone conversations, hands free or not, pale in to insignificance compared to the numbers texting and interacting via onscreen keyboards (phone, tablet, manufacturer built in) with social media.

Ride a motorcycle and you can see just how widespread this is. Hiding it in their lap does little to hide it from a motorcyclist. They are also easily spotted by impersonating nodding dogs as their focus continually switches from screen to the road ahead.
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube


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