Second thoughts on offsiding

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
Astraist
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Re: Second thoughts on offsiding

Postby Astraist » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:01 pm

Major spills of oil are admittedly rare. A case that I recall from several years ago was that of a lorry with a flat tyre which pulled over the side of the road. It had a leak that resulted in diesel pooling inside a rut formed by the flat tyre, which eventually overflowed into the lane - the drivers in the other lane were unaffected until one of them met an oncoming vehicle that skidded over the puddle.

So oil can certainly migrate across a slope, and by using both lanes you're increasing the chance of hitting it. This is of course assuming that the lighting conditions are such that the puddle is undetectable: in the aforementioned case, the sheen of the diesel was unmistakable in the daylight.

Stefluc1
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Re: Second thoughts on offsiding

Postby Stefluc1 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:49 pm

For me as has been said we don’t offside or extend your view in order to keep speed or maintain progress you position your vehicle for safety,view and stability and like most if you have an extreme offside position although I don’t know why you would travelling at the speed limit,it is only more advantageous at high speeds ie three figures and above however if you do it at whatever speed we have to do it safely.
Now the example given about the oil on the road is one that cause you problems however over the years I have rarely come across spills and that includes diesel that hasn’t had a clue leading up to it either a wet line on the run up to the large spill,and if it is the opposite direction then you can manoeuvre around it better as it will be visible on approach . My theory is that if you use the width of the road and travel at max speed limit for road then you are more at danger as the forces acting upon your vehicle as it approaches and negotiates the bend will be more than if you have an earlier position which allows for a more shallower entrance and if your view is maintained then so can your position,if your view reduces then so should your speed to match it. For me you can take care but still be a progressive driver if we worried about the what if’s we would never get any where, as for the example of ice on the 4oad then I would like to th8nk we would be driving to the conditions

Gareth
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Re: Second thoughts on offsiding

Postby Gareth » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:09 am

Stefluc1 wrote:we don’t offside or extend your view in order to keep speed or maintain progress

A couple of thoughts ...

First, it helps if you set the context when taking part in an international discussion so, may I assume, you are in the UK and, perhaps, a member of the IAM or RoADAR?

Second, I am based in the UK and I do offside to keep speed or maintain progress. In essence, if the driver (or rider) can see further then they can spot potential hazards earlier, and if the distance they can see to be clear (and reasonably expect to remain so) is increased then they can go faster while maintaining their chosen safety margin.
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...

Astraist
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Re: Second thoughts on offsiding

Postby Astraist » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:55 am

Stefluc1 wrote:Now the example given about the oil on the road is one that cause you problems however over the years I have rarely come across spills and that includes diesel.


True, its very rare; but the need to optimize the car's stability stems from fear of those very cases, rare though they may be: any sensible driver is going to be quite removed from the limit during road driving anyway.

So the whole idea of increasing that safety margin further (an idea of which offsiding is a main component) hinges on the possibility of an unforseeable spill of oil or diesel, a patch of black ice, sudden trouble with the car mid-corner, etc..

Stefluc1
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Re: Second thoughts on offsiding

Postby Stefluc1 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:55 am

The reason that I offside as per Roadcraft is to maintain view not maintain speed it’s the view that allows you to maintain speed or progress so you yourself drive on what you see is the information that allows this . Anyone who extends view or offside to maintain speed then you are sacrificing safety ,because the majority of drivers drive like this and it’s only at the last minute they gain information and then it is some times to late to work it into a driving plan hence tepee amount of statistics we have due to excess speed with poor information.

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superplum
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Re: Second thoughts on offsiding

Postby superplum » Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:44 pm

Stefluc1 wrote:The reason that I offside as per Roadcraft is to maintain view not maintain speed it’s the view that allows you to maintain speed or progress so you yourself drive on what you see is the information that allows this . Anyone who extends view or offside to maintain speed then you are sacrificing safety ,because the majority of drivers drive like this and it’s only at the last minute they gain information and then it is some times to late to work it into a driving plan hence tepee amount of statistics we have due to excess speed with poor information.


But bear in mind that "off-siding" is now "frowned" upon by the organisations' examiners and will not get you any smartie points on an advanced test. It is also worth bearing in mind that most (if not all) of the emergency services no longer train or practice off-siding because of the potentential risks involved. It'll be interesting to see if it is removed from the next Roadcraft.
:racing:

Stefluc1
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Re: Second thoughts on offsiding

Postby Stefluc1 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:59 pm

Were have you got your information from as regards to emergency services or in particular Police service not teaching this technique.

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Strangely Brown
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Re: Second thoughts on offsiding

Postby Strangely Brown » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:02 pm

superplum wrote:
Stefluc1 wrote:The reason that I offside as per Roadcraft is to maintain view not maintain speed it’s the view that allows you to maintain speed or progress so you yourself drive on what you see is the information that allows this . Anyone who extends view or offside to maintain speed then you are sacrificing safety ,because the majority of drivers drive like this and it’s only at the last minute they gain information and then it is some times to late to work it into a driving plan hence tepee amount of statistics we have due to excess speed with poor information.


But bear in mind that "off-siding" is now "frowned" upon by the organisations' examiners and will not get you any smartie points on an advanced test. It is also worth bearing in mind that most (if not all) of the emergency services no longer train or practice off-siding because of the potentential risks involved. It'll be interesting to see if it is removed from the next Roadcraft.
:racing:


That's not true; it depends how it is done. If done appropriately and safely - i.e. to hold an existing view rather than giving it up simply to remain on the "correct" side of the paint - then it will be appreciated on an advanced test. I had exactly this discussion with the examiner on test in April and, as I have previously posted, he clarified the point with head office to that effect.

crr003
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Re: Second thoughts on offsiding

Postby crr003 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:58 pm

Stefluc1 wrote:The reason that I offside as per Roadcraft is to maintain view not maintain speed it’s the view that allows you to maintain speed or progress so you yourself drive on what you see is the information that allows this . .....

Which bit of Roadcraft is it in? In the '97 version, page 121 has a section titled "Reducing the tightness of the bend", including the phrase "By moving your vehicle from one side of the available road space to the other......", which implies to me the "offsiding" concept.

That page is removed from the '07 and '13 versions. Positioning for cornering is limited to; right hand bend-position towards the left, left hand bend-position towards the centre line.

Is it still taught to police and Roadcraft has been watered down for public consumption/health&safety considerations?

Stefluc1
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Re: Second thoughts on offsiding

Postby Stefluc1 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:22 pm

It’s in the newest Roadcraft chapter 10 cornering there is a page can’t remember the number at moment as on holiday in Spain and don’t have access it states that we Position our vehicle for Safety- View - Stability,yes it still is taught in the Police well it was before I went on holiday it might have changed as things sometimes change quickly but somehow I don’t think so.
Super plum,you haven’t said where you have heard it is not taught in the emergency services was that in the last couple of weeks.


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