M1 Minibus "Accident"

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Strangely Brown
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Re: M1 Minibus "Accident"

Postby Strangely Brown » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:57 pm

... which completely ignores the fact that talking to someone *in* the car is NOT the same as talking to the disembodied voice on the end of the phone.

I think this discussion has probably run its course now. Nobody is going to change their mind. Those that appreciate their own, human, limitations will refrain from being involved in calls on the phone on the move, and those that believe themselves to be perfectly safe while using hands-free will carry on regardless.

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akirk
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Re: M1 Minibus "Accident"

Postby akirk » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:09 pm

Strangely Brown wrote:I think this discussion has probably run its course now. Nobody is going to change their mind. Those that appreciate their own, human, limitations will refrain from being involved in calls on the phone on the move, and those that believe themselves to be perfectly safe while using hands-free will carry on regardless.


While all we discuss on here / in AD is a good thing and it is right to pursue higher standards in our driving, and driving in general.
However, we shouldn't forget that standards below those to which we aspire are in the norm perfectly acceptable - so even though we can all agree that perfection will be out of reach when there is a distraction (any distraction), that doesn't mean that the driving is not safe - it might be, it might not be...

For me, a mobile is an easy distraction to remove, so I do, however I do also think that there are other distractions which can be as detrimental - e.g. squabbling children in the back of the car - should they also be banned?!

Alasdair

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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Re: M1 Minibus "Accident"

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:19 pm

Strangely Brown wrote:... talking to someone *in* the car is NOT the same as talking to the disembodied voice on the end of the phone.

I agree. It can't be. So, purely objectively, think about that statement:

On the plus side -
  • if the person is sensitive to driving requirements, they may modify their behaviour to suit road conditions
  • we're told that concentrating on a physical passenger is easier than on a disembodied voice (proof is only in the mind if you happen to believe the conclusions of a bit of research that supports your views).
On the minus side -
  • if the passenger in the car is not sensitive to driving requirements, they may be upset if the driver doesn't respond, and react by gesturing at, shouting at, or physically interfering with the driver.
  • they cannot be silenced, except by social pressure. The disembodied voice can be silenced with a single button press.
  • the driver may be tempted to engage them with eye contact or gestures of their own (yes I know there are people who drive along gesturing at their phones :D )
  • the passenger may distract the driver by encouraging them to look at random things outside the car - scenery, passers-by, etc. or even inside it - "look at this picture / text / facebook message my gf just sent me" [waving mobile in front of driver]
  • conversation may be expected for the entire duration of the journey. Phone conversations tend to be brief. We'd certainly expect them to be among this audience.
Strangely Brown wrote:I think this discussion has probably run its course now. Nobody is going to change their mind. Those that appreciate their own, human, limitations will refrain from being involved in calls on the phone on the move, and those that believe themselves to be perfectly safe while using hands-free will carry on regardless.


Agreed, apart from the patronising bit.
Nick

Pontoneer
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Re: M1 Minibus "Accident"

Postby Pontoneer » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:47 am

Matt1962 wrote:
Horse wrote:So do you mean accept short term safety deterioration in anticipation of safety gain from potentially improved direction finding? You could, of course, achieve gain-gain by stopping to make the call, couldn't you?


No... and possibly yes. Before accepting (or making) a call, and during that call you need to make sure that safety is maintained. Stopping might be the sensible option, but might not be possible or necessary (slow moving traffic on a motorway for example).
However driving is never completely without risk, and it is quite possible that leaving a major road to stop somewhere might increase your risk more than accepting a simple call. Think, for example, of leaving a clear and straight French autoroute and heading on to a rural road via tollbooths etc. to make that call.

That raises a question.

We know the legal position re use of hands free telephony here in the UK . Is it the same in other countries, or do some countries ban hands free calls completely?

Gareth
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Re: M1 Minibus "Accident"

Postby Gareth » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:29 am

Pontoneer wrote:Is it the same in other countries, or do some countries ban hands free calls completely?

Start by looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_ph ... hands-free
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...


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