US to invest $4bn in autonomous cars

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jont-
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US to invest $4bn in autonomous cars

Postby jont- » Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:04 pm

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/15/busin ... -cars.html

It's always disappointing in these articles that there's never any input from driver training organisations. I'm intrigued to see where manufacturers are getting their models of "good" driving from.

IcedKiwi
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Re: US to invest $4bn in autonomous cars

Postby IcedKiwi » Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:40 pm

http://www.ricardo.com/en-GB/News--Media/Press-releases/News-releases1/2016/Ricardo-report-explains-technology-and-testing-needed-to-enable-self-driving-cars/

Ricardo had a press release a few days ago talking about key enablers for autonomous cars, and mentions developing models for the other drivers on the road to use in simulations but doesn't mention about the autonomous cars driving - that's probably in the OEMs domain rather than ours.

Ricardo wrote:In terms of advancing virtual testing and validation, the white paper describes Ricardo Agent Drive – simulation software based on agent-based modelling methodology that is used to create real-world driving scenarios to test complex driving situations for autonomous vehicles in agent-based simulation. This is under development and will be used to test future autonomous vehicle concepts. This method of testing puts agents (vehicles, people or infrastructure) with specific driving characteristics (such as selfish, aggressive, defensive) with their connections in a defined environment (cities, test tracks, military installations) to understand complex interactions that occur during simulation testing. The benefits to car manufacturers and their suppliers that this approach aims to deliver are faster product development cycles, reduced costs related to test-vehicle damage and lower risk of harming a vehicle occupant under test conditions.


But what's your definition of "good"? Would you be happy with an autonomous car taking an offside position for vision? If it decided to straight line an open bend with nothing around, how would you feel as an occupant approaching the same bend the following day but this time with oncoming traffic and the knowledge of how the car treated the bend previously? Or did you have in mind other good driving practises?

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jont-
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Re: US to invest $4bn in autonomous cars

Postby jont- » Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:32 pm

IcedKiwi wrote:But what's your definition of "good"? Would you be happy with an autonomous car taking an offside position for vision? If it decided to straight line an open bend with nothing around, how would you feel as an occupant approaching the same bend the following day but this time with oncoming traffic and the knowledge of how the car treated the bend previously? Or did you have in mind other good driving practises?

So you'd like it to work at the lowest common denominator level? There was someone on the zebra crossing yesterday, should it stop today when it's empty?

I'd also like an "overtake the slow **** in front" button, and "please use DT levels of braking rather than acceleration sense" slider :lol:

Are the coffin dodgers going to be allowed to go as slowly as they are familiar with, and to hell with the queue behind them? :twisted:

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akirk
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Re: US to invest $4bn in autonomous cars

Postby akirk » Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:45 pm

jont- wrote:Are the coffin dodgers going to be allowed to go as slowly as they are familiar with, and to hell with the queue behind them? :twisted:


If it is autonomous they will have no choice...
If they have choice it is no longer autonomous - in much the same way that you have no choice over how the DLR works in London which is driverless, so you will get into the car and be limited to telling it where to stop...

Alasdair

IcedKiwi
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Re: US to invest $4bn in autonomous cars

Postby IcedKiwi » Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:15 am

jont- wrote:So you'd like it to work at the lowest common denominator level? There was someone on the zebra crossing yesterday, should it stop today when it's empty?

I'd also like an "overtake the slow **** in front" button, and "please use DT levels of braking rather than acceleration sense" slider :lol:

Are the coffin dodgers going to be allowed to go as slowly as they are familiar with, and to hell with the queue behind them? :twisted:


I think if it get's to the stage where the only controls are an overtake button, then I'd rather just have a sleep/read a book/watch a movie and take no interest in the journey. Half the fun is the thought process to try and optimise the road - and if you're not doing the thinking then I'm not sure I'd care whether it drove in an advanced way or just followed someone blindly at 40.

In other news Nissan planning on using autonomous tech on the GT-R so it can drive you around race tracks too.... Fine as a demonstration of tech, but why would anyone actually use such a thing?
http://www.topgear.com/car-news/future-tech/nissan-autonomous-gt-r-could-race-you-round-ring

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Re: US to invest $4bn in autonomous cars

Postby Horse » Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:44 am

jont- wrote:
IcedKiwi wrote:But what's your definition of "good"? . . . Or did you have in mind other good driving practises?

So you'd like it to work at the lowest common denominator level?


What is LCD for driving? How about "Don't hit anything or anyone, give the passenger a comfortable journey"?

jont- wrote: There was someone on the zebra crossing yesterday, should it stop today when it's empty?


Why do you think it would stop if there was no-one there? ???

jont- wrote: I'd also like an "overtake the slow **** in front" button, and "please use DT levels of braking rather than acceleration sense" slider :lol:


If it's all autonomous vehicles, they may be going the same speed as you anyway.

But you hint at a major concern, that of how well autonomous and 'self-driven' vehicles can mix on the roads.
My own views. For better or worse :)

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jont-
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Re: US to invest $4bn in autonomous cars

Postby jont- » Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:52 am

Horse wrote:What is LCD for driving? How about "Don't hit anything or anyone, give the passenger a comfortable journey"?

Whose idea of comfortable? I might have very different ideas from someone else about what is appropriate.
Horse wrote:
jont- wrote: There was someone on the zebra crossing yesterday, should it stop today when it's empty?

Why do you think it would stop if there was no-one there? ???

IcedKiwi seemed to think offsiding would be confusing for the passenger depending on whether you trusted your autonomous vehicle to see/not see the oncoming traffic. I was suggesting it's no different to many of the other hazards it would encounter.

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Horse
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Re: US to invest $4bn in autonomous cars

Postby Horse » Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:31 am

jont- wrote:
Horse wrote:What is LCD for driving? How about "Don't hit anything or anyone, give the passenger a comfortable journey"?

Whose idea of comfortable? I might have very different ideas from someone else about what is appropriate.


You might. And perhaps there's case for adaptability to the passenger. However, I would imagine that the vehicle will be designed in such a way that the vast majority of passengers won't suffer motion sickness :)

jont- wrote:
Horse wrote:
jont- wrote: There was someone on the zebra crossing yesterday, should it stop today when it's empty?

Why do you think it would stop if there was no-one there? ???

I was suggesting it's no different to many of the other hazards it would encounter.


Surely it will follow a set of 'rules', and respond accordingly. So why do you think the lack of presence of a pedestrian would still cause it to drive in an identical way?
My own views. For better or worse :)

IcedKiwi
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Re: US to invest $4bn in autonomous cars

Postby IcedKiwi » Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:43 am

It follows on from my quote:
IcedKiwi wrote:If it decided to straight line an open bend with nothing around, how would you feel as an occupant approaching the same bend the following day but this time with oncoming traffic and the knowledge of how the car treated the bend previously? Or did you have in mind other good driving practises?

Where if it was following a set of rules then obviously it wouldn't straight line the corner if there was oncoming traffic, but I thought it may make passengers feel uneasy doing things that are outside their norms.
Similarly you might not do it yourself if there's other cars around because of their reaction to something they're not familiar with.

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Horse
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Re: US to invest $4bn in autonomous cars

Postby Horse » Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:12 pm

Horse wrote:
jont- wrote:
IcedKiwi wrote:But what's your definition of "good"? . . . Or did you have in mind other good driving practises?

So you'd like it to work at the lowest common denominator level?


What is LCD for driving? How about "Don't hit anything or anyone, give the passenger a comfortable journey"?


To clarify: my meaning for 'comfortable' has nothing to do with the implementation / acceptability of techniques such as offsiding, it is simply to do with passenger comfort e.g. avoiding motion sickness, i.e. a 'chauffeur' drive.
My own views. For better or worse :)


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