M1 Minibus "Accident"

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angus
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M1 Minibus "Accident"

Postby angus » Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:16 pm

So the court case has ended, with one lorry driver being convicted (rightly) and the other cleared (surprisingly in my opinion).

But no mention has been made of what could be the contributory negligence by the minibus driver. From the traffic camera footage, traffic was light at the time and he should have been able to easily and safely ovetake the lorry, so why did he stop behind the lorry?

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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Re: M1 Minibus "Accident"

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:18 pm

For anyone with no idea at all of what Angus was posting about, which included me, there's a report here.

Driver 1 stops his truck, while partially drunk, in lane 1. He's convicted of dangerous driving. His licence had been revoked at the time.
Minibus driver stops behind the stationary truck, for reasons we'll never know, as he died, with his hazard flashers on.
Driver 2 is on a phone call and ploughs into the back of the minibus without braking or steering to avoid the impact. He "cannot remember" the crash (but he can remember what he was talking about on the phone). He's been cleared.

So driver 1 was negligent, but claims he felt unwell and couldn't reach the hard shoulder.
Minibus driver behaved strangely, possibly negligently, but we'll never know why.
Driver 2 killed 8 people and injured 4 others seriously, but is cleared. This is the strangest part to me. His was the only moving vehicle in the crash. How can he be completely innocent?

EFA: Actually it looks as if he may be convicted of Death by Careless Driving - the BBC report is rather ambiguously worded. The stopped driver has been convicted of Death by Dangerous Driving, however.
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fungus
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Re: M1 Minibus "Accident"

Postby fungus » Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:19 pm

angus wrote:So the court case has ended, with one lorry driver being convicted (rightly) and the other cleared (surprisingly in my opinion).

But no mention has been made of what could be the contributory negligence by the minibus driver. From the traffic camera footage, traffic was light at the time and he should have been able to easily and safely ovetake the lorry, so why did he stop behind the lorry?


Poor observation, confusion? We'll never know.

Nigel.

fungus
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Re: M1 Minibus "Accident"

Postby fungus » Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:26 pm

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:For anyone with no idea at all of what Angus was posting about, which included me, there's a report here.

Driver 1 stops his truck, while partially drunk, in lane 1. He's convicted of dangerous driving. His licence had been revoked at the time.
Minibus driver stops behind the stationary truck, for reasons we'll never know, as he died, with his hazard flashers on.
Driver 2 is on a phone call and ploughs into the back of the minibus without braking or steering to avoid the impact. He "cannot remember" the crash. He's been cleared.

So driver 1 was negligent, but claims he felt unwell and couldn't reach the hard shoulder.
Minibus driver behaved strangely, possibly negligently, but we'll never know why.
Driver 2 killed 4 people and injured 4 others seriously, but is cleared. This is the strangest part to me. His was the only moving vehicle in the crash. How can he be completely innocent?


I agree there.

It seems strange that driver 1 was taken so suddenly unwell that he couldn't reach the hard shoulder.
The minbus driver should have been able to observe that the lorry was stationary in lane one and steered around it as others had obviously done.
The second lorry driver is definately guily of causing death by careless driving.

Nigel

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angus
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Re: M1 Minibus "Accident"

Postby angus » Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:27 pm

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:For anyone with no idea at all of what Angus was posting about, which included me, there's a report here.


Sorry, with all the coverage in the media at the time and the court case over the past few days, I assumed everyone would know what I was talking about

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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Re: M1 Minibus "Accident"

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:29 pm

Angus wrote:I assumed everyone would know what I was talking about

I don't watch news much, and I don't live in the South East. Not your fault. Just helping out any others who'd never heard of this case.
Nick

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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Re: M1 Minibus "Accident"

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:33 pm

fungus wrote:The minbus driver should have been able to observe that the lorry was stationary in lane one and steered around it as others had obviously done.

Yes, but we won't know why he stopped - perhaps he had thoughts of going to see if the lorry driver was OK?

fungus wrote:The second lorry driver is definitely guily of causing death by careless driving.


At the least. It depends on your view of hands-free phone calls. If the distraction was sufficient for him to be unable to see two stationary vehicles, one with hazard flashers operating, then to me, that's dangerous. If he was influenced by something else - tiredness, hunger, alcohol as well, that's definitely dangerous too, imho, but obviously the court didn't think so. "Poor chap, there was nothing he could do to avoid the accident". Yeah, right!

ETA: Watching the video (which was taken from a low resolution camera some 100s of yards away), there is a steady stream of traffic in lane 2, so it's possible the minibus driver believed he was boxed in. The description says "seconds later", so it doesn't look as if he had much time to get clear before the second truck arrived. Yes, he should probably have observed it earlier and changed lanes. It doesn't look as if it was possible for him to do that as a reactive manoeuvre.
Nick

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Horse
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Re: M1 Minibus "Accident"

Postby Horse » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:23 pm

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:
Angus wrote:I assumed everyone would know what I was talking about

I don't watch news much, and I don't live in the South East. Not your fault. Just helping out any others who'd never heard of this case.


It's on the front page of the BBC News site ;)
My own views. For better or worse :)

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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Re: M1 Minibus "Accident"

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:27 pm

... and ... are you suggesting I should be permanently aware of what they have on their site?
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Re: M1 Minibus "Accident"

Postby Gareth » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:27 pm

The news item I watched said the second lorry driver pleaded guilty to eight counts of careless driving, (the linked article says all eight counts were causing death by careless).

If it had been during daytime perhaps the minibus driver would have spotted the obstruction earlier and been able to overtake.
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...


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