Associate cannot keep to the speed limit

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
crr003
Posts: 466
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:32 pm

Re: Associate cannot keep to the speed limit

Postby crr003 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:48 pm

Horse wrote:
crr003 wrote: does it really matter?


I think so, on some courses it was one of the first things I asked.

crr003 wrote:
titian wrote:Horse nailed it,

Did he?
Who knows what her motivation?


If you don't ask, you'll never know.

I'm being a tad provocative, and yes there's place for that warm fuzzy coaching malarky, but you don't really know what the motivation is; they can say "I've got a young child and I need to be a safer driver" when they really mean "I'm on nine points and my husband is going to leave me if I get 12 and a bloke down the pub said having an IAM badge will help with the beak".

What if the motivation is "to be safer/to save fuel and the planet/to avoid points.....", that doesn't translate into compliance. I've had people imply "I'll do the limits for the test, but after I'll drive normally".
What's their motivation? It doesn't prevent them controlling the vehicle.

I'd guess this lady isn't used to driving at 30 for any length of time. She needs to practice.

waremark
Posts: 555
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:23 am

Re: Associate cannot keep to the speed limit

Postby waremark » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:10 pm

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:
waremark wrote:I particularly like "stick to beat them with ... Not in the IAM Observers manual! :)"!

Standard issue at old-fashioned Police driving schools according to legend.

If you get one of these you can even get it personalised, so if you use it hard enough you can leave your signature on them!

https://www.love-up.co.uk/product/personalised-wooden-ruler/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI96fFmqCo2QIVqRXTCh2nNwV3EAkYAiABEgIXq_D_BwE

I thought the instructors at Hendon used to use steel rules (not wooden ones) to 'reward' students who allowed their left hand to ride on the gear lever!

waremark
Posts: 555
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:23 am

Re: Associate cannot keep to the speed limit

Postby waremark » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:17 pm

"which may be why many AD drives observe the speed limits in 30s but are less concerned by well sighted NSL" ......

Unfortunately speed limits are a very blunt instrument and there are very many roads with 30 limits on which a higher speed would be safe and not anti-social.

The different attitudes of some AD drivers to the NSL from their attitudes to red ring lower limits is an interesting topic but one which is not appropriate for frank discussion on a public forum.

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Horse
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Re: Associate cannot keep to the speed limit

Postby Horse » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:56 pm

crr003 wrote:
Horse wrote:
crr003 wrote: does it really matter?


I think so, on some courses it was one of the first things I asked.

crr003 wrote:
titian wrote:Horse nailed it,

Did he?
Who knows what her motivation?


If you don't ask, you'll never know.

I'm being a tad provocative, and yes there's place for that warm fuzzy coaching malarky, but you don't really know what the motivation is; they can say "I've got a young child and I need to be a safer driver" when they really mean "I'm on nine points and my husband is going to leave me if I get 12 and a bloke down the pub said having an IAM badge will help with the beak".

What if the motivation is "to be safer/to save fuel and the planet/to avoid points.....", that doesn't translate into compliance. I've had people imply "I'll do the limits for the test, but after I'll drive normally".
What's their motivation? It doesn't prevent them controlling the vehicle.

I'd guess this lady isn't used to driving at 30 for any length of time. She needs to practice.


Blimey, you are in a grump :)

I've had allsorts.
- I had a crash, so wanted training so I don't do it again. I have too many points so IAM wouldn't take me
- I'm borrowing a bike to commute into the F1 at Silverstone where I'm working
- I've been made redundant and have ordered a sports bike with the payout - I've not ridden for 20 years
- I've been riding for 20 years but suddenly found I can't go around corners
- I'm going to give up riding if I can't control my bike at slow speed
- My boyfriend has built me a Triumph chopper. I need to learn to ride

How many do you want? Each a different reason, a different motivation. And for each it help me plan their training (often within the same basic syllabus) and predict likely places where it might go wrong (so I could either prevent that or, at the appropriate time, introduce it as a challenge when I knew they would cope and then realise what they had achieved).

'Warm fuzzy coaching malarky'? No, as you can see from those few examples, an essential part of lesson planning. Why wouldn't you do it?
My own views. For better or worse :)

waremark
Posts: 555
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:23 am

Re: Associate cannot keep to the speed limit

Postby waremark » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:01 am

Of course I always ask reason for doing it. This lady mentioned among other things her six point speeding penalty.

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Horse
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Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:20 am

Re: Associate cannot keep to the speed limit

Postby Horse » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:10 am

waremark wrote:I thought the instructors at Hendon used to use steel rules (not wooden ones) to 'reward' students who allowed their left hand to ride on the gear lever!


I was politely warned about the risks of using the left foot in an attempt to declutch in an auto car . . .

Hendon skid pan instructor wrote:If I see your left leg move, I'll hit it so hard I'll break your leg. That way you won't accidentally hit the brake and crash my car.
My own views. For better or worse :)

kfae8959
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:36 pm
Location: Liverpool

Re: Associate cannot keep to the speed limit

Postby kfae8959 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:22 am

I had a candidate this week who mentioned in the pre-drive checks that the car was equipped with a speed limiter, and that it may be used. In the end it wasn't, but I would have considered that appropriate. Whether that is an abdication of the driver's responsibility, as Alasdair suggests, or an advantageous use of the car's equipment, depends on the driver's planning.

David
Last edited by kfae8959 on Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Horse
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Re: Associate cannot keep to the speed limit

Postby Horse » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:29 am

waremark wrote:Of course I always ask reason for doing it. This lady mentioned among other things her six point speeding penalty.


Locus of control. It's her decision to take training - but she can't abdicate her speed choice and control of the vehicle to you.

TBH, if you think she:
a. Won't pass the test
b. Is likely to end up getting more points
Then tell her exactly that. Ask her how she intends to alter her driving, for both outcomes? If she doesn't have an answer, then, politely and respectively, suggest that perhaps her training is put on hold until she does.
My own views. For better or worse :)

vanman
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:16 pm
Location: Caterham Surrey

Re: Associate cannot keep to the speed limit

Postby vanman » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:22 pm

Just a thought, try a full detailed commentary from you or them, if that dose't work add WHAT IF'S. Worked for me.

good luck

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Horse
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Re: Associate cannot keep to the speed limit

Postby Horse » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:05 pm

vanman wrote:Just a thought, try a full detailed commentary from you or them, if that dose't work add WHAT IF'S. Worked for me.

good luck


That's what I was working towards with 'why is the limit there?'
My own views. For better or worse :)


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