Pros and cons of hi-vis

Topics relating to Advanced Riding on bikes
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GTR1400MAN
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Pros and cons of hi-vis

Postby GTR1400MAN » Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:56 pm

I may also get one of these to wear over my riding gear at night.

Proviz Reflect 360

Image

Mike Roberts

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exportmanuk
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Re: Santa list?

Postby exportmanuk » Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:40 pm

GTR1400MAN wrote:I may also get one of these to wear over my riding gear at night.

Proviz Reflect 360



So you are going to ride around looking like Casper the ghost ?
Andrew Melton
Manchester 500

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Santa list?

Postby GTR1400MAN » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:32 pm

exportmanuk wrote:So you are going to ride around looking like Casper the ghost ?

Image
Mike Roberts

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Horse
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Re: Santa list?

Postby Horse » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:10 pm

Do you still have the GTR? With a full fairing?

Image

Serious Q: when do you actually think that jacket might be of benefit from improved conspicuity?
My own views. For better or worse :)

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Santa list?

Postby GTR1400MAN » Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:45 am

Yes and yes ... but not that old model in the pic ;)

The point you make is one I regularly make about hiviz during the day. I don't regularly wear it and I'm quite vocal about everyone riding around in it. However I do wear retroreflective at night and these jackets have many times the material that's on a typical vest. Headlights do light the material up and these jackets also glow under street lighting. It won't help in the typical single car SMIDSY but if there are other vehicles heading towards you it can. I'd also point out the screen is transparent and my arms/shoulders are also exposed. Finally if I was ever unfortunate to come off at night on a country road I may be seen laying in the road ... or a field.
Mike Roberts

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Santa list?

Postby GTR1400MAN » Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:57 am

I'd also add that the reflective material is also illuminated when I am presenting a side profile to any vehicle . At that time my headlights and rear lights are not that visible.
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Re: Santa list?

Postby Horse » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:39 am

GTR1400MAN wrote: However I do wear retroreflective at night and these jackets have many times the material that's on a typical vest.


The typical hi-viz waistcoat is practically useless, for many reasons, not the least that it's a rider's arms and shoulders that are most visible.

GTR1400MAN wrote: these jackets also glow under street lighting.


Glow? How's that work then?

GTR1400MAN wrote: but if there are other vehicles heading towards you it can.


If they are retro-reflective, then most of the light from other vehicles will be reflected straight back to them.


Sorry, riders of fully-faired bikes with top boxes . . . wearing hi-viz . . . is one of my pet hates - especially if it's a waistcoat! Absolutely pointless.

You're only really at risk from drivers a few seconds away - where you will be fully visible if they look (and that's not the same as recognising you]. The challenge, of course, is that if you think that it might, just, provide some benefit, then at the back of your mind will be a tiny thought that "He must have seen me because I'm wearing this spiffy bright jacket!" - potentially, in some way, you abdicating responsibility to take action for your safety - ie risk compensation.

Really, my question still stands: in which circumstances could it really be expected to make a difference? Even side-on to a driver, their headlamps should still be shining towards you. I can only think of one circumstance like that, of being stopped at a T junction waiting to turn right, with a driving turning right into the junction possibly not seeing you and cutting the corner.

GTR1400MAN wrote: Finally if I was ever unfortunate to come off at night on a country road I may be seen laying in the road ... or a field.


Don't worry, the flames from the broken pile of plastic and petrol-soaked metal will attract attention ;)


NB Before my career change, I was looking at joining the DSA's (as was) RPMT. One of the rules is that "thou shalt wear hi-vis". I'd planned to get one of these:

Image

:D
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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Santa list?

Postby GTR1400MAN » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:03 am

You are preaching to the wrong person. I'm well aware of the shortfalls of hiviz and reflective jackets. I regularly point out all the things you have mentioned to others. Likewise the current trend to make the front of your bike look like a Christmas Tree with add on lights ;)

Do I ride any different wearing one? No. Could it help me be seen? Maybe. Does it keep my riding gear clean? Yes. :)

Glowing: The light reflects pack towards the source and flares a bit, so street lighting, shops, cars, etc all can reflect some light in various directions, but not at full intensity. The jacket is not a flat surface when worn.

Image
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Re: Santa list?

Postby ancient » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:36 am

That picture nicely illustrates another problem with HiViz when it actually works. The dozy-person's attention is drawn towards the farther rider, away from the nearer. Given that attention is limited, this is bad news for anyone not wearing HiViz. It's a 'beggar thy neighbour' approach in the same way as the lighting war.

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Re: Santa list?

Postby Horse » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:58 am

GTR1400MAN wrote:You are preaching to the wrong person. I'm well aware of the shortfalls of hiviz and reflective jackets.


I know ;)

GTR1400MAN wrote: Do I ride any different wearing one? No.


No point in wearing it then ;)

GTR1400MAN wrote: Glowing: . . . all can reflect some light in various directions, but not at full intensity.


Come on! You know that's not how retro-reflective material works - it does exactly the opposite! If it scatters light then it's just 'normal' material.

GTR1400MAN wrote: The jacket is not a flat surface when worn.


Perhaps ironically, the higher-spec microprismatic retro-reflective materials work less-well than 'glass bead' materials on curved surfaces.

FYI

http://assets.highways.gov.uk/specialis ... mplete.pdf

See Fig 10-20, page 69. Note how the 'H' bands on the jacket hardly show (especially compared to the ankle bands) and how the side of the vehicle (completely covered in high-spec material) hardly reflects any light back (10-12 for comparison).
My own views. For better or worse :)


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