Cognitive bias and the "thirds" rule

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ancient
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Re: Cognitive bias and the "thirds" rule

Postby ancient » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:54 am

Part of the reason for cognitive bias is that what we see is not so much a result of what impinges on our senses, but results from our predictions about what will be out there. A good read in that area is Andy Clark's 'Surfing Uncertainty: Prediction, Action, and the Embodied Mind '. Predicting correctly is something we do so often, that we believe it is truth. Sometimes we predict incorrectly, so believing these predictions is what we need to guard against.

Anecdata: The other day I was driving down a narrow country lane and saw a car ahead, started to brake, came around the bend and there was the approaching car. At least that is the order that my brain stored the action ;) . Most likely I was predicting the possible presence of the oncoming car - using the same portion of the brain as processes sight, whilst reacting to the approaching bend. The real image confirming my prediction was then processed before the memory of the (bau) reaction to the bend. Either that or I am psychic :lol: .
Funny old things, these self-aware lumps of meat!

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Horse
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Re: Cognitive bias and the "thirds" rule

Postby Horse » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:58 am

ancient wrote: Funny old things, these self-aware lumps of meat!


"Intel Inside"? No, a suitable phrase someone coined: 'wetware' :)
My own views. For better or worse :)

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Horse
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Re: Masters assessment

Postby Horse » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:28 am

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote: Yes, it is. You want to believe we're speed freaks who don't think


Have I said that? No, I haven't - and you know that I've been on a couple of AD days and learned from them.

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote: YOU chose to hijack a discussion on a completely different topic to introduce cognitive bias.


And thank you for splitting this, and the ADI-bashing hijack (not my fault, that one!) - out.

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote: While recognising the validity of your points, the fact remains that the rule of thirds can be a useful adjunct to hazard assessment and, yes, even progress! :shock:


As I've probably said much earlier, I read about it (on another forum), tried it and didn't get on, but couldn't really put my finger on 'why'.

But having said that I may not be good at self-awareness, more recently reading about the mental aspects seemed to answer some of those 'not getting on' concerns and there was something in the Masters thread to which it seemed pertinent.
My own views. For better or worse :)

hir
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Re: Masters assessment

Postby hir » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:43 pm

Horse wrote:... But . . . I don't use those long continuous views in any 'thirds'-style manner. Perhaps because I've never been taught it or really understood the explanations I've read. [my emphasis]



Hello, is there anyone there? Is anyone listening? Is there any cognitive non-bias out there :lol: ? Please, who, apart from yourself, has ever suggested that long continuous views plays a part in the application of the "thirds" rule?

However, I have to admire your ability to use research on cognitive bias to create an argument against a construct that you suggest you may perhaps... "never [have] been taught ... or really understood the explanations read." :cheers:

The only way in which you, or anyone else for that matter, is going to be able properly to understand what the "thirds" rule is about and be able to make an informed judgement as to its efficacy or otherwise, is to go for a drive with someone who understands how it works, believes that they use it to good effect and has the ability to explain it in a meaningful way. It's not something that can easily be learnt from a forum or a book. It's all about feel... does the safety, observation, position, acceleration, speed, deceleration, balance, braking, entry speed, turn-in, feel right? If the "thirds" rule helps in any way in achieving these outcomes so much the good. If it doesn't, or has no effect, then just forget about it. But, I would urge you not to come to a conclusion having tried to put into action something based solely upon what it is you happen to have read on a forum or in a book.

Hope that helps. :)

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Horse
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Re: Masters assessment

Postby Horse » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:03 pm

hir wrote:
Horse wrote:... But . . . I don't use those long continuous views in any 'thirds'-style manner. Perhaps because I've never been taught it or really understood the explanations I've read. [my emphasis]



Hello, is there anyone there? Is anyone listening? Is there any cognitive non-bias out there :lol: ? Please, who, apart from yourself, has ever suggested that long continuous views plays a part in the application of the "thirds" rule?


Intended as continuously visible road, rather than views across the scenery.

Full paragraph from that post [my subsequent bolding]:
Horse wrote: Does that mean that I don't look to the distance? Of course I do :) Into the distance, glances across views etc. But . . . I don't use those long continuous views in any 'thirds'-style manner. Perhaps because I've never been taught it or really understood the explanations I've read.
My own views. For better or worse :)

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Horse
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Re: Masters assessment

Postby Horse » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:11 pm

hir wrote: However, I have to admire your ability to use research on cognitive bias to create an argument against a construct that you suggest you may perhaps... "never [have] been taught ... or really understood the explanations read." :cheers:


At least I'm open about not understanding it :drums:

hir wrote: The only way in which you . . . properly to understand what the "thirds" rule is about and be able to make an informed judgement as to its efficacy or otherwise, is to go for a drive with someone who understands how it works, believes that they use it to good effect and has the ability to explain it in a meaningful way. It's not something that can easily be learnt from a forum or a book.

Hope that helps. :)


I think you're right.

However, that doesn't stop me from wondering 'why?' :) And I think that's always a good challenge to make :drool:
My own views. For better or worse :)

hir
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Re: Masters assessment

Postby hir » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:25 pm

Horse wrote:Full paragraph from that post [my subsequent bolding]:
Horse wrote: Does that mean that I don't look to the distance? Of course I do :) Into the distance, glances across views etc. But . . . I don't use those long continuous views in any 'thirds'-style manner. Perhaps because I've never been taught it or really understood the explanations I've read.



I think I understand. In the above quote the words "those long continuous views" relates to your "looks into the distance and glances across views etc". I was thinking that when you wrote "those long continuous views" you were referring to your previously stated understanding that the "thirds" rule required one to "focus" and/or "concentrate" on the far distant limit point, thereby, perhaps, causing one to miss closer hazards. But, that does raise the question as to why you use the word "continuous"? Are you using it in the context of being focused upon, or concentrated on, the far distance. If that is the case I would counsel against "continuously" viewing any hazard unless it was developing in a way in which I might have to react to it. To continuously look at, or focus, upon any hazard that isn't a developing hazard, be it in the far distance or nearby, is a recipe for missing a more important or immediate hazard.

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Strangely Brown
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Re: Cognitive bias and the "thirds" rule

Postby Strangely Brown » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:00 pm

I think he may be using "continuous" to mean "uninterrupted" as in "nothing in the way"?

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Horse
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Re: Cognitive bias and the "thirds" rule

Postby Horse » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:10 pm

Strangely Brown wrote:I think he may be using "continuous" to mean "uninterrupted" as in "nothing in the way"?


Horse wrote: Intended as continuously visible road, rather than views across the scenery.


:)
My own views. For better or worse :)

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Horse
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Re: Masters assessment

Postby Horse » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:32 pm

hir wrote: But, that does raise the question as to why you use the word "continuous"? Are you using it in the context of being focused upon, or concentrated on, the far distance.


Nope, simply to separate it from discontinuous views, where sections of road are visible.

Discontinuous



Continuous


Is there an accepted bit of jargon to differentiate the two? :)
My own views. For better or worse :)


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