Riding a bicycle without brakes

Anything that doesn't fit elsewhere - doesn't have to be AD related.
Rolyan
Posts: 570
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:45 pm

Re: Riding a bicycle without brakes

Postby Rolyan » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:59 am

mainbeam wrote:Has anyone advocated strict criminal liability for motorists involved in a collisions with pedestrians/ My understanding is that civil liability ought to be changed to improve safety. I don't find this particularly controversial.

We were well into the 20th century before the law of negligence recognised the vulnerability of workers in the workplace and changed accordingly. It is now possible for an employer to be prosecuted for a breach of Health and Safety legislation that has not resulted in any harm and not the consequence of negligence. The law recognises that the parties do not necessarily have an equal responsibility for workplace safety.

The civil law already recognises the difference in responsibility among road users by treating fault and liability differently.

Richard Gaffney makes a reasoned argument for extending this further.

https://www.slatergordon.co.uk/media-ce ... vs-europe/

I think the issue is that some people (often cyclists, but not exclusively so) believe that the motorist has full and complete responsibility in the event of a collision, and that pedestrians (and in some cases cyclists) do not share any of that responsibility.

It's an extreme view that many recognise as idiotic, based on a culture of rights and not responsibilities. Yet in the minds of the misguided few it still stands. Perhaps that's why so many of them wear dashcams, it's all part of the victim mentality.

It's also worth noting that although the law recognises that the parties may not have equal responsibilities it is very clear that employees share some of the responsibility. That's really the point here, that ALL road users, including pedestrians, share some of the responsibility.

User avatar
exportmanuk
Posts: 149
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:56 pm
Location: Manchester

Re: Riding a bicycle without brakes

Postby exportmanuk » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:13 pm

I think the Slater articles suggestion we should look at the Dutch system is interesting. In Holland many cycle-ways are completely separate from the road traffic. Cyclists are in my experience much more law abiding citizens when compared to the ones in the UK's major cities, but then so are most pedestrians too. Personally I feel that everyone should ensure as much as possible their own safety and that of people in their care. Especially parents of children who drag them dangerously between traffic crossing roads within sight of a safe crossing place. If we start with educating children how to use roads safely then maybe they will grow in to adults who respect the dangers and behave accordingly.
Andrew Melton
Manchester 500

User avatar
Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
Posts: 1036
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 7:01 pm
Location: Swindon

Re: Riding a bicycle without brakes

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:26 pm

exportmanuk wrote:If we start with educating children how to use roads safely then maybe they will grow in to adults who respect the dangers and behave accordingly.

Ah, back to this:
Image
Nick

User avatar
jcochrane
Posts: 247
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:53 pm
Location: Surrey-Kent borders and wherever good driving roads are.

Re: Riding a bicycle without brakes

Postby jcochrane » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:36 pm

Horse wrote:
jcochrane wrote:
Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:
Isn't there a saying in AD that "nothing happens 'suddenly' "?


I think what you may have in mind comes from the "Roadcraft" video which is nearly always misquoted....it is not that nothing happens suddenly.
What is actually said is "Very few things happen suddenly." However good a driver you are you can still have an accident through no fault of your own. On introducing the System of Car Control it used to be said that if you drive to the System you will not have an accident of your own making.


Unfortunately, that's an almost impossible ideal.

People get tired, distracted, make mistakes, etc.

...and that is the problem-to drive to the system all the time is nigh on impossible. That's where "concentration management" comes in to help.

User avatar
exportmanuk
Posts: 149
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:56 pm
Location: Manchester

Re: Riding a bicycle without brakes

Postby exportmanuk » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:59 pm

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:Ah, back to this:
Image

Indeed :D
Andrew Melton
Manchester 500

User avatar
Horse
Posts: 1734
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:20 am

Re: Riding a bicycle without brakes

Postby Horse » Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:24 pm

jcochrane wrote:
Horse wrote:
jcochrane wrote:On introducing the System of Car Control it used to be said that if you drive to the System you will not have an accident of your own making.


Unfortunately, that's an almost impossible ideal.

People get tired, distracted, make mistakes, etc.

...and that is the problem-to drive to the system all the time is nigh on impossible. That's where "concentration management" comes in to help.


Couple of other options:
- Go slower; more time to process the same amount of information
- Have a Plan B ready *before* it's needed
My own views. For better or worse :)

User avatar
Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
Posts: 1036
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 7:01 pm
Location: Swindon

Re: Riding a bicycle without brakes

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:33 pm

Horse wrote:Couple of other options:
- Go slower; more time to process the same amount of information
- Have a Plan B ready *before* it's needed

Exactly! I alluded to this obliquely above.
Nick

User avatar
Horse
Posts: 1734
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:20 am

Re: Riding a bicycle without brakes

Postby Horse » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:08 pm

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:
Horse wrote:Couple of other options:
- Go slower; more time to process the same amount of information
- Have a Plan B ready *before* it's needed

Exactly! I alluded to this obliquely above.


Sorry - sometimes a bit hard of thinking ;)

Of course, '1' has the added bonus of reduced stopping distance too.
My own views. For better or worse :)

User avatar
Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
Posts: 1036
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 7:01 pm
Location: Swindon

Re: Riding a bicycle without brakes

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:59 pm

Horse wrote:
Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:
Horse wrote:Couple of other options:
- Go slower; more time to process the same amount of information
- Have a Plan B ready *before* it's needed

Exactly! I alluded to this obliquely above.


Sorry - sometimes a bit hard of thinking ;)

Of course, '1' has the added bonus of reduced stopping distance too.

Indeed. Not suggesting anyone was hard of thinking, either.
Nick

ancient
Posts: 163
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 4:03 pm

Re: Riding a bicycle without brakes

Postby ancient » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:52 am

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:
exportmanuk wrote:If we start with educating children how to use roads safely then maybe they will grow in to adults who respect the dangers and behave accordingly.

Ah, back to this:
Image

Indeed, back to a campaign to scare people from using the roads as public spaces. After all, as Moore-Brabazon said back in the 1930s
It is true that 7000 people are killed in motor accidents, but
it is not always going on like that. People are getting used to
the new conditions. The fact that the road is practically the
great railway of the country instead of the playground of the
young has to be realised. No doubt many of the old Members of
the House will recollect the numbers of chickens we killed in
the old days. We used to come back with the radiator stuffed
with feathers. It was the same with dogs. Dogs get out of the
way of motor cars nowadays and you never kill one. There is
education even in the lower animals. These things will right
themselves.

Personally I am with A.P. Herbert who wrote
if a man were to gallop 45 horses tethered together at their full speed past a cross-roads, no lack of agility, judgement or presence of mind in the pedestrian would be counted such negligence as to excuse his injury

It's an argument that has been going on for some time and more civilised nations have better public spaces, because their relationship with motor vehicles is not tainted by the spirit of Moore-Brabazon.


Return to “General Chat”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest