Riding a bicycle without brakes

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Horse
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Re: Riding a bicycle without brakes

Postby Horse » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:00 pm

I didn't say that they don't have responsibility. However, none of us know for certain from a quick glance, were going by best guess.
My own views. For better or worse :)

fungus
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Re: Riding a bicycle without brakes

Postby fungus » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:05 pm

akirk wrote:If society spent more time accepting that we have responsibilities and privileges - and not rights, then society as a whole would be less selfish and better!
Alasdair


+1

Nigel.

fungus
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Re: Riding a bicycle without brakes

Postby fungus » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:08 pm

Horse wrote:I didn't say that they don't have responsibility. However, none of us know for certain from a quick glance, were going by best guess.


And that's about all we can do.

Nigel.

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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Re: Riding a bicycle without brakes

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:15 pm

fungus wrote:To go down that line is going to criminalise many innocent motorists who have done nothing wrong, but just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Isn't there a saying in AD that "nothing happens 'suddenly' "?

Also depends on your definition of "doing nothing wrong" - is that along the lines of "the speed limit was 30, m'lud, and my client was travelling at 29mph, as per the evidence of the onboard dash camera"?
Nick

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jcochrane
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Re: Riding a bicycle without brakes

Postby jcochrane » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:54 pm

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:
Isn't there a saying in AD that "nothing happens 'suddenly' "?


I think what you may have in mind comes from the "Roadcraft" video which is nearly always misquoted....it is not that nothing happens suddenly.
What is actually said is "Very few things happen suddenly." However good a driver you are you can still have an accident through no fault of your own. On introducing the System of Car Control it used to be said that if you drive to the System you will not have an accident of your own making.

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Horse
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Re: Riding a bicycle without brakes

Postby Horse » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:49 am

jcochrane wrote:
Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:
Isn't there a saying in AD that "nothing happens 'suddenly' "?


I think what you may have in mind comes from the "Roadcraft" video which is nearly always misquoted....it is not that nothing happens suddenly.
What is actually said is "Very few things happen suddenly." However good a driver you are you can still have an accident through no fault of your own. On introducing the System of Car Control it used to be said that if you drive to the System you will not have an accident of your own making.


Unfortunately, that's an almost impossible ideal.

People get tired, distracted, make mistakes, etc.
My own views. For better or worse :)

mainbeam
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Re: Riding a bicycle without brakes

Postby mainbeam » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:55 am

Has anyone advocated strict criminal liability for motorists involved in a collisions with pedestrians/ My understanding is that civil liability ought to be changed to improve safety. I don't find this particularly controversial.

We were well into the 20th century before the law of negligence recognised the vulnerability of workers in the workplace and changed accordingly. It is now possible for an employer to be prosecuted for a breach of Health and Safety legislation that has not resulted in any harm and not the consequence of negligence. The law recognises that the parties do not necessarily have an equal responsibility for workplace safety.

The civil law already recognises the difference in responsibility among road users by treating fault and liability differently.

Richard Gaffney makes a reasoned argument for extending this further.

https://www.slatergordon.co.uk/media-ce ... vs-europe/

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Riding a bicycle without brakes

Postby GTR1400MAN » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:24 am

Why isn't it law here? I'll just leave this and let people imagine what it would be like if this was the law.

Anyone could claim they'd been hit, without the need for evidence/witnesses. Why this doesn't happen in Europe I don't know. Maybe it does.

NB. Clearly staged as an advert for dashcams.

Mike Roberts

Rolyan
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Re: Riding a bicycle without brakes

Postby Rolyan » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:45 am

Horse wrote:
Rolyan wrote:
They are of all ages and abilities.

If you mean that pedestrians shouldn't have to take all the responsibility, then you're correct.

But if you mean that pedestrians shouldn't take any responsibility for their own safety, then you are the one talking utter guff.


Keep in mind that some pedestrians simply can't do we what motorised road users take for granted.

For example, a few years ago Filly had major surgery on her neck. During recovery she couldn't safely cross the road, as it took so long to pivot from looking one way to the other.

Some pedestrians will have sensory limits, whether vision or hearing.

Children simply can't judge speed and distance: Primary school children cannot accurately judge the speed of vehicles travelling faster than 20mph, according to a study carried out by researchers at Royal Holloway, University of London.

The researchers measured the perceptual acuity of more than 100 children in primary schools, and calculated the speed of approach that they could reliably detect. The results suggest that while adult pedestrians can make accurate judgements for vehicles travelling up to 50mph, those of primary school age become unreliable once the approach speed goes above 20mph, if the car is five seconds away.

Professor John Wann, from the Department of Psychology at Royal Holloway, said: “This is not a matter of children not paying attention, but a problem related to low-level visual detection mechanisms, so even when children are paying very close attention they may fail to detect a fast approaching vehicle.”

The researchers are now looking at the potential for using virtual reality systems to make children more aware of the errors that may occur, but Professor Wann stresses that the simplest solution lies in traffic regulation.


Trouble is, simply by looking you can't tell what someone's abilities are . . .

Correct, you can't tell by looking what someone's abilities are. But that doesn't absolve them of all responsibility.

Some braver than me might suggest that if Filly couldn't cross the road safely due to being able to pivot, then she shouldn't have been trying to cross the road there. Perhaps she chose not to cross the road, which would strengthen the argument by showing that she recognised that all road users share responsibility to some degree.

We ALL share SOME of the responsibility, and my point remains that if Ancient is suggesting otherwise, then he is the one talking guff.
Last edited by Rolyan on Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Rolyan
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Re: Riding a bicycle without brakes

Postby Rolyan » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:49 am

GTR1400MAN wrote:
Rolyan wrote:... but your comments remind me of the complete buffoon on the old IAM forum, who said that cyclists have zero responsibility in the event of a collision.

Wasn't he called



He did have some extreme views and anyone in/on something with an engine was to blame/responsible. Having said that the IAM (and others) have recently been touching on the idea of peds and cyclists not having responsibility and the use of an auto-responsibility law for motorised vehicles. A dangerous slippery slope in my opinion (and no that's not where I think we should send such advocates :lol: ).

He was indeed called Alan, and his claim that in a collision the motorised vehicle held full and total responsibility regardless of circumstances, and the pedestrian/cyclist was automatically completely without blame, only weakened any points he tried to make about cyclists. If the IAM are now also going down that idiotic route, then more fool them, as it will only serve to alienate more members. It was bad enough when they gave cyclists their own forum, but this is indeed the start of the slippery slope.
Last edited by Rolyan on Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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