Blues and Twos and Traffic Lights

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
User avatar
Horse
Posts: 3557
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:20 am

Re: Blues and Twos and Traffic Lights

Postby Horse » Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:43 pm

[Youtube]https://youtu.be/AqlL9nHiRYY[/youtube]

Sorry, posting from the tablet, so not easy to insert links.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

User avatar
GTR1400MAN
Posts: 2209
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: Blues and Twos and Traffic Lights

Postby GTR1400MAN » Mon Oct 10, 2016 5:03 pm


There you go (you just need the video code after the last slash).
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

WhoseGeneration
Posts: 374
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:02 pm

Re: Blues and Twos and Traffic Lights

Postby WhoseGeneration » Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:20 pm

Ooh, I was on holiday when this started.
My view, don't move.
Politicians' actions have led to this sort of situation.
Let them take the rap for any result of your refusing to cross a red light.

User avatar
GTR1400MAN
Posts: 2209
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: Blues and Twos and Traffic Lights

Postby GTR1400MAN » Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:45 pm

A good example of what is being discussed, though ... :

A) there's loads of room for the Peugeot to ease forward and left without encroaching on the crossing. The driver jumped a couple of times and decided not to move, probably due to the peds continuing to amble across the road, oblivious of all around them.

B) the Police car could have continued a bit further and cut back to the correct side of the road after a couple of bits of raised divider.
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

waremark
Posts: 898
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:23 am

Re: Blues and Twos and Traffic Lights

Postby waremark » Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:47 pm

Horse wrote:[Youtube]https://youtu.be/AqlL9nHiRYY[/youtube]

Sorry, posting from the tablet, so not easy to insert links.

Not sure what I was seeing there. Did the police driver get out of his car to direct the Cayenne driver to cross the line against a red light? Is it officially released by the Met as an illustration of good practice?

User avatar
GTR1400MAN
Posts: 2209
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: Blues and Twos and Traffic Lights

Postby GTR1400MAN » Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:53 pm

waremark wrote:Not sure what I was seeing there.

Obviously, it's a Pug! ;)
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

User avatar
Horse
Posts: 3557
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:20 am

Re: Blues and Twos and Traffic Lights

Postby Horse » Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:23 am

waremark wrote:
Horse wrote:[Youtube]https://youtu.be/AqlL9nHiRYY[/youtube]

Sorry, posting from the tablet, so not easy to insert links.

Not sure what I was seeing there. Did the police driver get out of his car to direct the Cayenne driver to cross the line against a red light? Is it officially released by the Met as an illustration of good practice?


Your guess is as good as mine. AFAIK It's just a vid recorded by a random pedestrian.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

mainbeam
Posts: 162
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:32 am

Re: Blues and Twos and Traffic Lights

Postby mainbeam » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:34 pm

akirk wrote:The explanations have been boringly repeated above...
Two main ones:
- a constable can not adequately determine from the driving seat of a car whether or not it is completely safe to instruct a motorist in front to cross a red light, so as per the case quoted above it is completely different to a constable instructing a motorist to reverse down a one way street when safety can be ascertained


You are still missing the point that the decision of what is safe is an objective fact. There is no legal rule that states a Police Officer must be in front of the vehicle to instruct a driver to move safely across a stop line. This is an opinion stated by 'vonhosen', apparently a Police driver and repeated by others as if it was an enactment. "Controlling traffic" has a more general meaning than "engaged in the direction of traffic". You are assuming they are the same. If they were then I should think the Court would use the language of the Statute rather than expressly stating it was not referring to the legislation in its judgement. There would have been no point to the case cited.

akirk wrote:
- evidence that common law is valid for one scenario has no bearing on a different scenario


Yes it does. Google "abstraction" in a legal dictionary or endure some legal training. ;)

akirk wrote:-safety could be managed in one, not the other


Your view but not a statement of the law.

akirk wrote:- police drivers are specifically trained not to do what you suggest they were doing


Not relevant to the law.


akirk wrote:You seem to be setting yourself up as being right despite everyone else posting the actual reality, and seem to be criticising the advanced driving community for not agreeing with you... presumably as you are so sure you are right, you don't consider yourself to be a part of that (very patient!) community... I am beginning to wonder why you signed up on here if you have no respect for that set of people?

Alasdair


Ultimately if a Police driver instructs a driver to move out of his way then most people would simply do as directed. Advanced drivers, certainly many posting here, assert that if in doing so a driver crosses the 'stop line' he commits an offence. This assertion is made simply by reference to legislation without any understanding of the wider law.

If you're instructed to "get out of the way!" then get out of the way provided it is safe to do so. No need for pages of discussion on an internet forum.

:)

User avatar
Strangely Brown
Posts: 1018
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:06 pm
Location: Sussex

Re: Blues and Twos and Traffic Lights

Postby Strangely Brown » Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:24 pm


WhoseGeneration
Posts: 374
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:02 pm

Re: Blues and Twos and Traffic Lights

Postby WhoseGeneration » Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:31 pm

Obvious answer is obvious, do not move. "Safe" is a subjective opinion.


Return to “Advanced Driving - Cars”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests