Staying safe on a bike

Topics relating to Advanced Riding on bikes
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ChristianAB
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Staying safe on a bike

Postby ChristianAB » Fri Oct 02, 2015 10:13 am

What are the keys to staying safe, avoiding collisions/issues, on a motorbike?
I am considering learning to ride a motorbike, but I know so many riders who have had a collision that I am anxious to go ahead.
Last edited by ChristianAB on Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Horse
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Re: Staying safe on a bike

Postby Horse » Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:19 pm

Like driving, it's hazard perception, anticipation, etc. - the principles are the same as driving but the potential outcomes from getting it wrong are far more extreme.

The MSF (see my 'History' thread) did some task analysis research and found that riding requires about 3x the effort of driving.
My own views. For better or worse :)

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exportmanuk
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Re: Staying safe on a bike

Postby exportmanuk » Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:00 pm

Expect everyone is out to kill you and ride accordingly. Remember you are harder to be seen so do not think because they looked your way they have seen you. But also consider being over cautious can make you the hazard
Andrew Melton
Manchester 500

Rick448
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Re: Staying safe on a bike

Postby Rick448 » Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:46 pm

Many of the skills learnt from car AD are very transferable. I think that positioning on a bike is much more important and flexible than in a car. You have a lots more scope in terms of the size of the vehicle compared to the width of the road. Use your position to allow you to be seen. And as above, never assume you have been spotted. Junctions are a paticular hazard and don't sit in the shadow of other vehicles when approaching them. Consider what the driver st the junction can see of you. If you can't get a clear view of them they are unlikely to see you even if they are looking. Take extra training after passing the test and learn how to actually ride a bike. And enjoy them, they are great things! I love mine :)

xpc316e
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Re: Staying safe on a bike

Postby xpc316e » Wed May 11, 2016 1:33 pm

I know I am arriving late at the party, but I do not consider that riding a motorcycle has to be dangerous. You can certainly make it so, if you are poorly trained, inattentive, unaware of others and their actions, and a person whose personal risk meter is calibrated differently to the rest of us. If the right training is done and the right mindset is adopted, then riding a bike is hugely satisfying and rewarding.

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StressedDave
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Re: Staying safe on a bike

Postby StressedDave » Wed May 11, 2016 1:41 pm

ChristianAB wrote:What are the keys to staying safe, avoiding collisions/issues, on a motorbike?

Leave the keys at home...

If that sounds a little flippant, it isn't. Just about every traffic officer of my acquaintance and long standing in their role also had large numbers of pins, plates and other ironmongery in their forearms and notes from their Doctor explaining that they shouldn't ride Police bikes in winter time.

I also have a 'nice' collection of photographs of occasions where I have had to play 'spot the viscera' when a car driver has done something that a) couldn't be reasonably foreseen, no matter how prescient or trained and b) was about as stupid as possible.
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Horse
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Re: Staying safe on a bike

Postby Horse » Wed May 11, 2016 1:53 pm

Couple of thoughts:

1. Change of mindset away from blaming :
https://nosurprise.org.uk/
My own views. For better or worse :)

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Horse
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Re: Staying safe on a bike

Postby Horse » Wed May 11, 2016 1:53 pm

2.

From Bike October 06

Are car drivers the problem?

Dopey motorists killing innocent bikers is a nice idea. Trouble is, it's a myth

If we're talking danger, it doesn't get more dangerous than death. Sussex Police inspector Simon Labbett has spent many years trying to understand the reasons why bikers die.

'A lot of people have jumped on bandwagons and said, for example, that it's junctions. Well actually, for fatal crashes junctions aren't the problem,' he explains. 'To reduce the fatalities you have to focus on the riders. Because they often don't require anyone else to intervene - they're quite capable of doing it themselves.'

Strong stuff? His research tracked down what kinds of bike were involved in all 55 fatal accidents in Sussex between 2000 and 2003 - something not recorded in the standard police process. The results were staggering. Of the 55 fatalities, 37 occurred on sportsbikes '96 Blades, RIs, GSX-Rs and the like. Another 11 were on sports tourers - Blackbirds, VFRs and Fazers. Just two commuter riders died, with one fatal crash on a tourer and one on a retro. And in more than nine out of ten of all these deaths, rider error - usually excessive speed - was the main cause of the crash.

Even taking into account the popularity of sportsbikes in the UK, their depressingly strong showing was hugely disproportionate. 'The main time is July to September,' notes Simon drily. 'Male, 25-44, sportsbike, good weather, weekend, dry country road, 60mph limit, rider error, speed a factor. That's the hallmark of who is likely to die.'

In other words, someone like me, and maybe you. But the question Simon asked was: why? 'I decided to look at the psychological profile of the different groups,' he explains. 'We spent an entire summer at bike meets, asking all kinds of riders to fill in a questionnaire originally developed to profile adrenaline sport enthusiasts. The result showed the sensation-seeking desires of sportsbike riders were significantly higher than other groups of riders. It wasn't surprising that the guys who ride the real mean machines want the thrills out of life. What was surprising was that these riders alone seemed to deny their part in what was going on.' This attitude emerged from a question that asked riders who was to blame for the county's recent fatal accidents. The choices were mechanical failure, the road environment, car drivers, or motorcyclists themselves.

'Overwhelmingly, sports riders said it was the car drivers' fault,' reports Simon. 'Very rarely did they say it's the riders' fault. The other riders blamed car drivers too, but they also said it could be them - the sportsbike guys. So there's a division among motorcyclists themselves.'


The reasons why car drivers take the rap are easy enough to understand - even if, as Simon explains, they're flawed. 'Most bike collisions happen in built-up areas and those are indeed someone else's fault - a driver emerging from a side road and the familiar, "Sorry mate, I didn't see you" story.

'However, most fatal accidents happen in 60mph limits on rural roads. Failure to see the bike goes down dramatically and rider error becomes much more significant.'

Riders - and sportsbike riders in particular - were applying what they knew about urban areas to rural roads. But it's wrong.

What to do? Simon, who has his eye on a new Honda CBF1000, is convinced that training on its own won't achieve much. 'If you're dealing with control, not the rider's mindset, you could make the problem worse. If you take somebody, and say, "Look, you prat - if you take these lines it's far safer," the guy suddenly realises that instead of going round at 50 he can go round at 60. Nobody's dialled into his brain that the safe speed was 40. It's so important to address the mindset.

'Manufacturers agree with what I'm saying. They actually say, "We don't want to sell these bikes - it creates a bad image. We'd rather be selling cruisers".'

'Understanding potential variances in attitude, risk and behaviour of motorcyclists that may lead to fatal collisions'


Simon Labatt, November 2003
My own views. For better or worse :)

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Horse
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Re: Staying safe on a bike

Postby Horse » Wed May 11, 2016 2:05 pm

StressedDave wrote:
ChristianAB wrote:What are the keys to staying safe, avoiding collisions/issues, on a motorbike?

Leave the keys at home...

If that sounds a little flippant, it isn't.


As much as you're right, where do we draw the line at accepting risk?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressr ... ding.shtml
The terrible toll of deaths and serious injuries in riding accidents has been revealed for the first time in a BBC Yorkshire investigation.
Riding is booming but so are the number of casualties - Yorkshire and Lincolnshire's two air ambulances have seen an increase of 65% in accidents over the past five years.
A report presented by TV vet and keen rider Emma Milne on Inside Out (Friday 23 March, 7.30pm, BBC One Yorkshire & Lincolnshire) reveals that, this year alone, flying paramedics have been scrambled to around 150 incidents - three a week.
And, for them, riding has now overtaken motorcycling as the biggest cause of rural casualties.


http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland-s ... -1-2813054
THE dangers faced by climbers who take to the Scottish mountains during winter months are once again in focus after Ben Nevis claimed the life this week of a 51-year-old man who sustained fatal injuries following a fall. Mark Phillips had apparently been enjoying “superb conditions” in the Highlands before his tragic accident, which brought the death toll in the Scottish mountains this year to 11. The fatalities have occurred at an average rate of almost two per week over the past six weeks, since John Wooding fell to his death in the Cairngorms on 13 January

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... fatalities

And: One of my bike instructor team gave up diving because he knew too many people who'd died!

StressedDave wrote:Just about every traffic officer of my acquaintance and long standing in their role also had large numbers of pins, plates and other ironmongery in their forearms . . .


. . . Raises an interesting question:
Was it poor training, inappropriate tasking (ie they were ordered to) or bad personal choice which led to their downfall? If it was several people rather than just one or two, it sound like a system failure somewhere.
My own views. For better or worse :)

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Staying safe on a bike

Postby GTR1400MAN » Wed May 11, 2016 2:36 pm

Simple. Attitude!

Get this one right, then advanced training taking advantage of position and your extra height. Learn how to really look as part of the Information phase. Always sacrifice everything for safety.

Do all that, apply the system rigorously, relax and enjoy one of the best stress busting activities out there.
Mike Roberts


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