Second thoughts on offsiding

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Horse
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Re: Second thoughts on offsiding

Postby Horse » Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:56 pm

Stefluc1 wrote: . . . the view is only restricted from a near side approach so by extending straddle the centre line on the approach gives you equal distance for safety and opens the view to any traffic approaching from the side entrances.


If you're saying 'move away from potential danger, or position equidistant from danger from either side', then 'yes', while respecting that someone turning right out of the turning on the left (or turning left from the right) may be slightly flummoxed by having another vehicle wholly or partially across the centre line.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

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Re: Second thoughts on offsiding

Postby Stefluc1 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:11 pm

Why,by your early position on approach will give drivers an earlier view of you and it only matters what Side of the road you are on if the driver emerges into your path on approach.
However ,I would hope that by identifying danger you would act appropriately as per Roadcraft by altering position and or speed as Roadcraft says by positioning your vehicle alone gives information,the emerging vehicle has to make sure it’s clear before emerging yes .
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Re: Second thoughts on offsiding

Postby Horse » Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:12 pm

Stefluc1 wrote:by your early position on approach will give drivers an earlier view of you and it only matters what Side of the road you are on if the driver emerges into your path on approach.


There's some research that shows that experienced drivers will only look where they expect other vehicles to be, and only look for about 0.4s at that!
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

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Re: Second thoughts on offsiding

Postby Stefluc1 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:31 pm

You carry on doing what you do and I will kee on doing what I do and as said. We will agree to disagree.
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Re: Second thoughts on offsiding

Postby Horse » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:33 pm

Stefluc1 wrote:You carry on doing what you do and I will kee on doing what I do and as said. We will agree to disagree.


Well that's simple: I'm stupid and you're either blind or don't read what's written, like that bit where I agreed with you. :roll:
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

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Re: Second thoughts on offsiding

Postby Stefluc1 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:48 pm

:D :D
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Re: Second thoughts on offsiding

Postby superplum » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:13 am

Stefluc1 wrote:It’s in the newest Roadcraft chapter 10 cornering there is a page can’t remember the number at moment as on holiday in Spain and don’t have access it states that we Position our vehicle for Safety- View - Stability,yes it still is taught in the Police well it was before I went on holiday it might have changed as things sometimes change quickly but somehow I don’t think so.
Super plum,you haven’t said where you have heard it is not taught in the emergency services was that in the last couple of weeks.


Sorry for the delay in responding, i've been away. My info was provided by a RoSPA examiner at a monthly group meeting a few months ago. More recently, it was also confirmed by a "Gold" standard paramedic.

You takes your choice; but think about the real-time practical advantages (if any).

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Re: Second thoughts on offsiding

Postby Stefluc1 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:39 am

Must be true then . The college of policing have not sent anything out to say that they are making drastic changes to driver training for cars there is a few changes to motorcycles. But I will stand to be corrected.
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Re: Second thoughts on offsiding

Postby Horse » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:15 am

Stefluc1 wrote:Must be true then . The college of policing have not sent anything out to say that they are making drastic changes to driver training for cars there is a few changes to motorcycles. But I will stand to be corrected.


Google finds a couple of items to support the change.

Skipton IAM newsletter:
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiHtuGd9O7cAhXMFsAKHQEuCUQQFjAAegQIChAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.iamroadsmart.com%2Fdocs%2Flibrariesprovider74%2Fdefault-document-library%2Fiam-september-newsletter.pdf%3Fsfvrsn%3Db5ff4a37_0&usg=AOvVaw00y-00m68VT5UbF6hPN63y

Years ago, this was taught on police advanced driving courses but over the past few years has been dropped.

https://www.sorrymate.com/offsiding-rider-technique/

Offsiding was taught for many years in UK police driving schools right up until the Eighties, when senior instructors considered that the benefits of this practice were outweighed by the safety implications, especially when a spate of crashes occurred as a result of the riders being on the offside whilst negotiating a left hand bend.


[And '80s' ties with the trafpol example I gave earlier]

However, as with most things, if you are clear about the circumstances when it should be used, what you might gain and the risks should it go wrong, the fair enough. If it's not easy to state clearly and concisely answers to the first two questions, then perhaps it needs more consideration.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

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Re: Second thoughts on offsiding

Postby Stefluc1 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:05 pm

The collisions that are referred to identified a training need which was dealt with accordingly and it was left with each of the individual driving schools to implement their own driver training . And since the early 90s extending the view was taught and still is in a majority of the driving schools. It is done in conjunction with a training course normally around 6 weeks and pre read material on chapters of Roadcraft.
From what I am lead to believe IAM Roadsmart advice is not to teach associates offsiding/extending view as it does not want any adverse implications placed upon them should it go drastically wrong and it ends up in either a coroners court or criminal court,as it can not rely on the individuals delivering an across the board standard .
They will allow for extending your view if you move across the centre line for a stationary hazard and you are approaching a left hand bend then you can remain there providing all the criteria is met,they don’t allow you to move across on your own what the difference is I don’t know but they’re you have it.
I have looked at Skipton Newsletter and read John Gregory’s piece and also looked at the new IAM Roadsmart ADSM and can no5 find any reference to offsiding being banned or frowned upon in fact John is a advocate of it again under the correct circumstances from the many conversations that I have had with him.
It seems you are against extending /offsiding which I don’t have a problem with each to their own but please don’t try and stop anyone else doing it as we are all responsible for our own actions when we get we behind the wheel as everything we do when we drive is a calculated risk some more than others.
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