Second thoughts on offsiding

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
Triquet
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Re: Second thoughts on offsiding

Postby Triquet » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:00 am

It's a pleasant quiet road and well worth including on the next driving day.

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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Re: Second thoughts on offsiding

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:33 pm

Horse wrote:
Stefluc1 wrote:Must be true then . The college of policing have not sent anything out to say that they are making drastic changes to driver training for cars there is a few changes to motorcycles. But I will stand to be corrected.


Google finds a couple of items to support the change.

Skipton IAM newsletter:
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiHtuGd9O7cAhXMFsAKHQEuCUQQFjAAegQIChAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.iamroadsmart.com%2Fdocs%2Flibrariesprovider74%2Fdefault-document-library%2Fiam-september-newsletter.pdf%3Fsfvrsn%3Db5ff4a37_0&usg=AOvVaw00y-00m68VT5UbF6hPN63y

Years ago, this was taught on police advanced driving courses but over the past few years has been dropped.

https://www.sorrymate.com/offsiding-rider-technique/

Offsiding was taught for many years in UK police driving schools right up until the Eighties, when senior instructors considered that the benefits of this practice were outweighed by the safety implications, especially when a spate of crashes occurred as a result of the riders being on the offside whilst negotiating a left hand bend.


[And '80s' ties with the trafpol example I gave earlier]

However, as with most things, if you are clear about the circumstances when it should be used, what you might gain and the risks should it go wrong, the fair enough. If it's not easy to state clearly and concisely answers to the first two questions, then perhaps it needs more consideration.


Speaking with a current Police advanced instructor recently, it was confirmed to me that offsiding is still taught in some schools, on advanced courses, with the proviso that there should always be a path back to safety, without undue haste (if you have to correct suddenly, you were in the wrong place to start with) and with due regard to the capabilities of each individual candidate. I drive regularly with this instructor, and have seen this practice and indeed follow it myself. It requires self-discipline and acknowledgment that safety comes first, as with all of Roadcraft.

So I'm afraid any reference to it being dropped in the 1980s and not resurrected, is either hearsay, or applies to a specific area of the country. It's not a universally applicable statement.
Nick

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Horse
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Re: Second thoughts on offsiding

Postby Horse » Sat Nov 24, 2018 11:01 pm

As before, could you post a Google maps link to a suitable location?

If I didn't say in the earlier post, it was either Maidstone or Kent driving school (although a Hampshire trafpol).
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

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Horse
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Re: Second thoughts on offsiding

Postby Horse » Sat Nov 24, 2018 11:06 pm



... shows it in use.

Also may have been linked earlier.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

Stefluc1
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Re: Second thoughts on offsiding

Postby Stefluc1 » Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:07 am

It’s still alive and kicking in all the Northwest forces driving schools ,I undertook my instructors course back in 2017 and it was taught to me . There are some people who have not got the ability to attempt this type of manoeuvre let alone carry it out,and due to this they fall into the category of it shouldn’t be done for whatever reason. The Scottish forces driving schools don’t teach offsiding as far as I know ,they may have changed.
IAM Examiner cars and LGVs
ROSPA Examiner Cars and LGVs
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Horse
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Re: Second thoughts on offsiding

Postby Horse » Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:12 am

Lucky for me, then, that Mr CW quoted this bit:

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:
Horse wrote:
However, as with most things, if you are clear about the circumstances when it should be used, what you might gain and the risks should it go wrong, the fair enough. If it's not easy to state clearly and concisely answers to the first two questions, then perhaps it needs more consideration.


:)
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Second thoughts on offsiding

Postby GTR1400MAN » Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:20 am

Horse wrote:

... shows it in use.

Also may have been linked earlier.

Not sure how I missed this whole topic on offsiding. Maybe because it is primarily about cars or I was on hols back then.

Regarding this video, which I've seen before, most of what is done in very wet conditions is straightening or maintaining existing view or reducing the radius of the bend. The rider being assessed does do what I'd call offsiding at 1:38 where he consciously moves from one lane to the other to GAIN view ... and what happens? There's an oncoming car and he has to come back in again. All done with no change of speed. So not sure at that point there was much to be gained but plenty to be lost.

What I find more interesting with this video is his continual dancing on the slippery white paint of the centre line and the fact the assessor is placing a lot of trust in the rider being assessed. Several times when benefits of position where printed up on the screen the assessor was in the counter position (or heavily toned down) relying on the lead bike to react or alert vehicles of their presence.

Note how easy the overtakes are when you have exemption.

Boy do those tractors sound rough when revved hard. ;)
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

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Horse
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Re: Second thoughts on offsiding

Postby Horse » Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:40 pm

Don't worry, the coffee grinder engines can sound quite awful close up ;)
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

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MichaelAC
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Re: Second thoughts on offsiding

Postby MichaelAC » Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:46 pm

I guess the rider was aware of the oncoming vehicle sooner than he would have been if he weren't off siding due to the improved view. Personally if used correctly I feel its a 'no brainer', it improves view and straightens bends which improves stability so you have a better view and improved ability to react to any situation due to greater stability and control over your vehicle, assuming you practice this method correctly.

I agree with you re the white lines on a wet day though, the rider concerned me with that too.

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Horse
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Re: Second thoughts on offsiding

Postby Horse » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:14 am

MichaelAC wrote:I guess the rider was aware of the oncoming vehicle sooner than he would have been if he weren't off siding due to the improved view.


And the oncoming driver would have been aware sooner of a bike heading towards him at speed . . .
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.


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