Brake vs. Advanced Driving

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
fengpo
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Re: Brake vs. Advanced Driving

Postby fengpo » Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:34 am

My point was you aren't looking for the same level of progress in a 30 as you would in a quiet country road. I tend to use light and shade as I think the saying goes.

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jont-
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Re: Brake vs. Advanced Driving

Postby jont- » Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:49 am

fengpo wrote:My point was you aren't looking for the same level of progress in a 30 as you would in a quiet country road. I tend to use light and shade as I think the saying goes.

I dunno, a busy city environment you can be working just as hard at trying to protect your space, optimise lane for progress (without upsetting others) etc.

fengpo
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Re: Brake vs. Advanced Driving

Postby fengpo » Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:39 am

That's all part advanced driving done well it's drama free.

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Horse
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Re: Brake vs. Advanced Driving

Postby Horse » Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:44 am

Strangely Brown wrote:
fengpo wrote:Firstly many thanks Alasdair for setting the forum up, I think the mantra of being flexible when safe to do so in nsl areas. Then sticking to said speed in populated areas in a fair statement.


"Sticking to said speed in populated areas"? Why would you not wish to continue to be flexible? Flexibility applies to lower speeds where required too. i.e. The throttle pedal works both ways.


Sticking 'up' or 'down' to the speed limit?
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

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Strangely Brown
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Re: Brake vs. Advanced Driving

Postby Strangely Brown » Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:57 am

Horse wrote:
Strangely Brown wrote:"Sticking to said speed in populated areas"? Why would you not wish to continue to be flexible? Flexibility applies to lower speeds where required too. i.e. The throttle pedal works both ways.


Sticking 'up' or 'down' to the speed limit?


Not "sticking" to anything in particular, rather selecting an "appropriate" speed for the circumstances. If that happens to be below the speed limit then that's the speed that you drive at. The preoccupation with the number on the stick is an interference. Yes, there are times when a prevailing speed limit may suggest something about the likely hazard density ahead but it is a blunt instrument that, unfortunately, is seen by too many as the "safe speed". Sometimes it is, more often it's not. It depends...

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Horse
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Re: Brake vs. Advanced Driving

Postby Horse » Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:50 am

Sorry, SB, that was aimed more at Brake, if 'sticking' is their terminology.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

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Strangely Brown
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Re: Brake vs. Advanced Driving

Postby Strangely Brown » Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:06 am

It was terminology used by fengpo in his earlier post. My reply was intended to make the same point about the number on a stick as expanded above. Flexibility should be used, not sticking, regardless of the limit. Brake rhetoric, like most evangelism, takes a draconian approach and simply heads for LCD.

fengpo
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Re: Brake vs. Advanced Driving

Postby fengpo » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:54 pm

I answered earlier in the post, dependent on the conditions etc. the street which I live on is a 30 limit, but I drive under that as there are hazards everywhere.

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R_U_LOCAL
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Re: Brake vs. Advanced Driving

Postby R_U_LOCAL » Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:34 am

I've just posted on this subject over on Pistonheads, so I'll share my thoughts here:

I've got mixed feelings about BRAKE, but just to enliven the debate a bit, I'll take a contrary position and give a couple of examples of good work that they do.

Firstly, support for bereaved families and people seriously injured in road accidents. They offer a support service which differs from normal bereavement and injury support services in that it is specific to road traffic accidents. They produce some excellent support material and run a helpline which, I'm in no doubt, helps many people at the lowest point in their lives. I've had a read through some of their information for bereaved families and it's absolutely spot-on; non-patronising, to the point, factual but understanding and as someone who's been through (and supported many families through) a similar experience, I couldn't write better material myself.

Secondly, road safety training for children. When I was a child we used to have regular visits from the local road safety police officer (PC Pickles! I always thought it was a made up name till I worked with him many years later. Geoff Pickles!). There were also numerous road safety messages broadcast for kids - remember the Tufty club? These days, it just doesn't happen - tightening police budgets would make Geoff Pickles an expensive luxury these days and kids would rather use twitter or facebook than watch Tufty or Charley the cat.

BRAKE promote and provide road safety training for children of all ages. At a time when almost all the responsibility for road safety is being forced onto drivers, it's refreshing to see an organisation taking a more holistic approach to road safety and equipping our more vulnerable road users with skills which could, and probably do, save their lives.

As for their driving advice, yes, I agree that, for driving enthusiasts and those of us who profess (or kid ourselves) that we're "advanced" or "better" drivers, much of their advice is far too simplistic and perhaps even unrealistic. But having said that, I don't believe it's aimed at us - it's aimed at the 90-95% of drivers on the road who see driving as another chore to endure or another activity they give very little thought to. I can't argue with BRAKE's position on alcohol & drugs and driving, or their position on the use of mobile phones, and on eyesight & regular eyesight tests, all of which are well aimed at the thoughtless masses. If a small percentages of those thoughtless masses changed their behaviour as a result of a BRAKE campaign, then the roads will be a slightly safer place.

I watched an interesting documentary last night on one of the BBC channels called "The Do Gooders". Presented by Ian Hislop, last nights episode looked at alcohol and prostitution and the British Victorian abstinence campaigners. The BRAKE road safety "pledge" is extremely similar to a sobriety pledge introduced to the Temperence movement by Joseph Livesey in Preston in the 1830s. Livesey was a vociferous campaigner for teetotalism and abstinance and there is no doubt that his intentions were good and based on his observations of the evils of excessive alcohol consumtion at the time. Within a short space of time his movement gathered momentum and over 40,000 people signed the abstinence pledge.

Did it stop people from drinking? Not really, but a few people did and their lives were likely improved as a result. Did his movement have a long-lasting effects on people's drinking habits? No, of course not, but, again, I'm sure his campaign saved a few lives.

So, for all these reasons, I'm trying not to be too negative about BRAKE - they're the modern equivalent of the Victorain do-gooders and they're trying to make the roads safer for everyone, which isn't such a bad thing, is it? I don't agree with all their advice for drivers, but I suppose I'm doing something about that by writing my own advice for enthusiastic drivers.

We're all reasonably well educated these days aren't we? That should mean we're able to pick and choose what advice we take and what advice we ignore. Please don't dismiss BRAKE solely on the basis of one or two lines from their advice for drivers. Take a look at the organisation as a whole and look at everything they do before making a judgement.
Reg Local - author of "Advanced & Performance Driving" http://tinyurl.com/qbxwocx

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jcochrane
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Re: Brake vs. Advanced Driving

Postby jcochrane » Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:55 am

I am in complete agreement with you on the 2nd, 3rd and 4th paragraphs.
If they would only stick to that but what you constantly hear from them is what they have to say about reforming driving and drivers. It is a shame realy because I've heard they do some very praiseworthy work in supporting those effected by road accidents and deserve support for this work.


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